The Question of Jerusalem

Oregon Magazine ^ | May 1, 2002 | Larry Leonard

[SKempis]

See post 60. Your BS quotient is nothing new to observers.

[Chunga]

I appreciate that SKempis.

[SKempis]

No problem. I don't suffer fools gladly either.

Welcome to FreeRepublic. : )

[Chunga]

"You refered me to the post of his that you had a problem with. That brings the issue into my perview."

I appreciate your point of view. However, I can't tell from LostTribe's posts and links whom he believes constitutes the Tribe Of Judah.

My question for him is simple:

"Do you believe the people living in Israel today who claim to be Jews are Israelites, descended from Jacob?"

In other words, I am wondering if he believes that the people on earth today who claim to be Jews are Jews, of the Tribe Of Judah, descendants of Jacob; or, does LostTribe believe them to be imposters?

I'm not trying to smear him; I haven't prejudged him. I just want to know the answer, and it's an answer he can give me as soon as he reads my myriad posts to him on this topic.

The issue of The Lost Tribes is used by many who deny the lineage of modern-day Jews from Jacob. I want to know where LostTribe stands on this issue, and he should have no problem answering the question clearly, right here, without referring me to links or previous posts. After all, he expresses his viewpoint about (and his screen name reflects) his interest in Lost Tribe history theory with great verve and gusto. He need not shy away from my question set forth right here.

[SKempis]

Did it suddenly get quiet in here, or what? <g>

[Chunga]

Is there a meeting? and Why didn't I get the memo?

[PaulKersey]

Your post made me curious, so I went back and spot checked a number of Lost Tribes initial posts to existing threads.  It turns out that many, maybe most of them deal with a subject on which the two of you seem to completely agree. Who are Jews, and when they were first identified as Jews. You say:

..entire Tribe of Levi ... remained with Judah and Benjamin (who became known as "Jews" following the conquest of the lower kingdom by Nebuchadnezzar).

and Lost Tribe says:

..made up of the Tribe of Judah & a mix of Levites and Benjamites. .......  taken captive in ~587 BC and removed to Babylon. Only ~50,000 returned to Palestine ~70 years later. They and their offspring are called Jews.

That's WAAAAY close enough for government work.  So since YOU agree with him on what he seems to think are very important definitions, YOU could call these fundamental definitions to the attention of threads which have it wrong, then he woudn't have to. What say?

[PaulKersey]

I'm not trying to smear him;

Like Hell you're not.

I haven't prejudged him.

Like Hell you haven't.

I just want to know the answer,

No, you are trying to run your own Nazi inqusition.  Are you a real NAZI, or do you just dress up in that uniform and act like one?

and it's an answer he can give me as soon as he reads my myriad posts to him on this topic.

Bet if you read his posts and profile page you would find that answer pretty quick.

[Alouette]

So since YOU agree with him on what he seems to think are very important definitions, YOU could call these fundamental definitions to the attention of threads which have it wrong, then he woudn't have to. What say?

I say that it is mere semantic nitpicking over a trivial factoid which has very little, if any at all, relevance to current events. It is like interrupting every thread which mentions "Americans" to say that Mexicans, Canadians, Brazilians, Argentineans, etc. are also "Americans" because they live in North or South America.

[Chunga]

Your credibility is shot. You're a liar, a foul-mouthed smearer and a paranoid accuser. Nothing you say matters to anyone but willful deceivers.

Shut the hell up, jerk.

[PaulKersey]

>I say that it is mere semantic nitpicking over a trivial factoid

Well, maybe you're right. But I certainly wasn't aware of the real definition of who is an Israelite and who is a Jew (and I've read the Bible "through and through"), and I suspect most other people who think they understand the Old Testament don't understand it that well either. It is so easy to mix up Jew and Israelite, they seem to blend into the same thing, when of course we (now) know they are not.

I personally think Lost Tribe is doing a great public service by helping people better understand the basis of their faith. And if he choses to do that by pointing out those basic errors in threads, that's just fine by me.

[Chunga]

"I've read the Bible "through and through..."

Did you miss the part about bearing false witness?

[LostTribe]

>"Do you believe the people living in Israel today who claim to be Jews are Israelites, descended from Jacob?"

Why yes, I have no reason to believe otherwise. Why do you ask?

While I have heard of a book on the Khazarites I have not yet read it. My primary interest is in the Northern Kingdom and it's progression through name changes to become the Lost Tribes of Israel, then the Celts, etc., and in keeping word usage accurate.

[skraeling]

While I have heard of a book on the Khazarites I have not yet read it.

In order to "round out" your education regarding at least some of todays occupants of the nation called Israel I suggest you read:      
The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Keostler.

[Chunga]

"Why do you ask?"

I ask in part because the issue of the Lost Tribes is agendized to the point of absurdity by anti-Semitic purveyors of the lie that the latter-day Jews in Israel (and the Jews scattered throughout the world today) aren't descended from the Jews of the Old Testament.

I invite you to run a search on Arnold Murray of The Shepherd's Chapel in Gravette Arkansas. He believes that the Kenites (decendents of Caan) are actually descended from Satan, whom he believes had sexual intercourse with Eve. From what I can gather, he believes that the modern-day Jews are Kenites...imposters...who steal the name Israelite...no better than common Claim Jumpers, thieves of the good names of others...who attempt to justify their greedy, clutching, grasping actions by subverting the word of God.

I submit that this kind of talk is highly inflammatory and will raise the hackles of observant Jews, evangelical Christians and anyone else concerned about cults, heresy and anti-Semitism.

[Chunga]

Why not tell us about the Khazars yourself, skraeling? Go ahead, in your own words.

[Chunga]

Would you show proof on this thread of the tribes of the Northern Kingdom being the predecessors and ancestors of the Celts? I know that you have asserted it's true, but is there citable evidence you can provide here that won't require linking to a host of sites? Can I get you on record with the evidence? Or must this theory be taken on faith?

[Thinkin' Gal]

Israel is the spiritual center of the world. <<<

And Jerusalem is the center of Israel.

And the Temple Mount is the center of Jerusalem. This is how I feel about it and being Jewish. Can some Christian freepers comment on this? Thanks!

"As the navel is set in the centre of the human body,
so is the land of Israel the navel of the world...
situated in the centre of the world,
and Jerusalem in the centre of the land of Israel,
and the sanctuary in the centre of Jerusalem,
and the holy place in the centre of the sanctuary,
and the ark in the centre of the holy place,
and the foundation stone before the holy place,
because from it the world was founded."
Midrash Tanchuma, Qedoshim.

http://www.templemount.org

 

[LostTribe]

>I submit that this kind of talk is highly inflammatory

Sure, and I agree with you about that. You should now should know quite clearly where I am. I speak for no one, and no one speaks for me. What you see is what you get, it is mine alone. Don't like it, fine. Have a nice day. Don't associate me with nuts, and I won't associate you with nuts.

As far as Celtic references, the work on the Assyrian Tablets in the British Museum linked from my Profile is excellent. Well written, inexpensive, authoritative, and stands alone. Nothing else needed. I think you will be impressed and will see that there is a real case to be made. After you have read it, come back and we'll talk some more.

[Chunga]

"You should now should know quite clearly where I am."

I don't. I don't know who you believe has stolen the name Israelite if it isn't the latter-day Jews...I don't know who you say are no better than common Claim Jumpers, who you say are thieves of the good names of others, who attempt to justify their greedy, clutching, grasping actions by subverting the word of God...and I don't know these things because you won't tell me. Why do you prefer to leave those reading your words in the dark about these things? Those were your words. Why not explain them?

You're obviously referring to some group of people. Who are they? Who could possibly have stolen the name "Israelite?"