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Hard Times -- Tech workers trying to find jobs face a bleak future
Computer World ^ | April 29, 2002 | Julia King

Posted on 05/01/2002 8:25:35 PM PDT by Mini-14

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To: FITZ
Do you live in an area affected by NAFTA? It's killed this part of the country...

I think all parts of the country are affected by NAFTA. But some of them are affected for the better and others for the worse. Overall, free-trade theory says, and the stats back it up, that the effects for the better outweigh the effects for the worse by a wide margin.

41 posted on 05/01/2002 9:57:34 PM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: SoDak
You and I think alike in that respect. I know I could make more money elsewhere but I like where I am. I know all the executives in the company all the way to the chairman. More importantly, everybody at the corporate offices know who I am. I'm not just an employee number on an HR spreadsheet. I have all the support I need to run my branch effectively. I've turned a profit and made bonus just about every year. It's a fun place to work. I always look forward to Monday morning and I usually don't bother taking all my vacation days because I can't stand being away from the office for more than a few days at a time. That said, I'm not a workaholic either. I'm usually home by 5PM everyday and I haven't worked a weekend or a holiday in 15 years. The people in my department who left for that extra $5,000 a year are fools. They went into a high-stress environment in huge companies where they were unknown outside their "group" and when the layoffs came last year, they were the first ones to go.
42 posted on 05/01/2002 9:58:17 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: apochromat
And I could've sworn I pressed the "private reply" key. <:^O
44 posted on 05/01/2002 10:02:16 PM PDT by apochromat
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To: Joe Bonforte
that the effects for the better outweigh the effects for the worse by a wide margin.

I don't see the evidence of that at all. We're in a recession, Mexico is in a recession, the entire border area is now being considered an economic disaster in need of huge amounts of federal money. Social program spending is higher than ever. In spite of jobs leaving this country at a very high rate, unskilled immigrants are flooding over the border and wages are dropping in many job categories. The national debt rose in the 90's and more people foreclosed on homes than ever before.

45 posted on 05/01/2002 10:23:25 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: apochromat
There's no reason why it can't be done. You could probably use two DC motors that could be speed controlled by voltage on the X and Y axis. Take a photocall output on a distant pinpoint star. A computerboards DSI 08 Jr. card on an IBM compatable would allow you to read the photocell outputs. The same card could be used to adjust the current to the motors. A BASIC program could analyze any slippage at the rate of 1000 times a second very easily. You's want tome kind of variable transform operated by step motors to do it.
46 posted on 05/01/2002 10:23:34 PM PDT by RLK
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To: apochromat
It's just a hobby for me. I don't have any time to make money from it,

Not being in the tech industry (believe it or not, not everyone is) I have no idea what you're talking about, I don't even know what "IT" stands for, BUT, I do know It's ideas like yours that create companies, jobs and careers.

It's layed off people with ideas and intellect like you that are capable of creating their own work rather than whine about being layed off...Which might explain why you don't have time. You're possibly already busy creating for someone else.

47 posted on 05/01/2002 10:44:02 PM PDT by lewislynn
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To: ijcr
"Quit whining! They're doing jobs Americans won't do, and they do not have student loans."..............LOL
48 posted on 05/01/2002 10:59:29 PM PDT by brat
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To: Mini-14; lazamataz
bump
49 posted on 05/01/2002 11:19:01 PM PDT by technochick99
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To: Joe Bonforte
Me: "What kind of work do you do? My guess is that you don't add much to society or production, please prove me wrong."

You: "I don't see why you feel the need to villify someone just because they hold different opinions (opinions that happen to be very free-market oriented, by the way). But to answer, I have worked in the computer industry for 25 years, doing everything from coding to running tech support to managing a good-sized consulting business. There are many systems that I have written out there doing productive work, some of which have been doing it for many years."

Sorry Joe, I shouldn't have gotten personal about this and I have no doubt you make a great contribution. I am a software engineer who was coding Windows applications and leading projects for the past fourteen years, my last employer went bankrupt and I have been out of work for several months. It's not much of an excuse but I am one of those engineers who was making a six figure income and now find myself and my family trying to live on unemployment compensation of $478 a week.

Once again, please accept my apology for my ill considered remarks.

50 posted on 05/02/2002 7:26:40 AM PDT by UnBlinkingEye
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To: UnBlinkingEye
Once again, please accept my apology for my ill considered remarks.

It's Ok, I have friends in the same boat. I went through such a period myself in the late 1980s. No work in my area, no matter how good you were. After eight months of looking, I took a job doing Unix, which I've never cared for.

But two years later the industry began to come back, and by 1995, salaries for developers were rising 15-20% per year. That boom lasted six or seven years. The key to getting by in this industry is to realize that today's big money may be gone tomorrow, so save, save, save, and don't get dependent on the high income. Hard advice to follow at this point, I know.

51 posted on 05/02/2002 9:12:28 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: FITZ
I don't see the evidence of that at all. We're in a recession, Mexico is in a recession, the entire border area is now being considered an economic disaster in need of huge amounts of federal money. Social program spending is higher than ever. In spite of jobs leaving this country at a very high rate, unskilled immigrants are flooding over the border and wages are dropping in many job categories. The national debt rose in the 90's and more people foreclosed on homes than ever before.

And Nafta is to blame for all of this? Wow, powerful legislation.

52 posted on 05/04/2002 7:09:41 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot
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To: SoDak
Would you count me as #4?
53 posted on 05/04/2002 7:43:46 AM PDT by irgbar-man
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To: Joe Bonforte
"Our average unemployment rate since enactment of NAFTA has been lower than any other period of the same length since the late 1960s."

What about per capita income for the same period. Adjusted for inflation, of course.

54 posted on 05/04/2002 7:52:31 AM PDT by fightu4it
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To: Mini-14
More than 200,000, or up to 2%, of the country's estimated 10.4 million IT workers are now jobless, according to Harris Miller, president of the Arlington, Va.-based Information Technology Association of America.

The US average is around 6% now, isn't it? And these weenies are complaining about 2% unemployment? Sheesh.

55 posted on 05/04/2002 8:12:10 AM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: savedbygrace
That number doesn't sound right.

We had a similar experince here where I work. For several years they couldn't even hire a single person(Manufacturing company in Silicon Valley, wages were not even close to the going rate and the working conditions are very blue collar), turn over was high. Now, we are fully staffed and every single person that left has called back in the last year looking for work.

I had several chances to leave but I entrenched myself in some mission critical stuff and expect to hang on through this downturn.

If history show anything, there will be another computer boom. Somewhere, some geeks are currently creating the next thing, and we'll be off and running again.

56 posted on 05/04/2002 8:33:01 AM PDT by Rev DMV
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To: fightu4it
"What about per capita income for the same period. Adjusted for inflation, of course."

As I said in another reply, it's very hard to get any reliable numbers for such a measure. We hear the horror stories of decreasing incomes, but hard measures of living standards (percentage of people who own their own homes, have a car, a telephone, VCR, etc., plus things like average home size) have had a steady increase as long as numbers have been recorded. See here for one example of a report. (I've seen an updated version of this that says basically the same thing, but I believe I saw it in print and I can't find it on the web.)

The numbers you want would depend heavily on government statistics. Do you trust those numbers? I don't. Neither do these people.

In short, while some incomes go up and others go down, every objective measure says the trend is toward better living standards, even when increasing taxes, etc. are taken into account. So I take all these studies on incomes with a huge grain of salt. They can't even come up with a decent measure of inflation! It is well know that the CPI has some serious flaws because it does not take technological evolution into account very well.

57 posted on 05/04/2002 7:20:07 PM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: savedbygrace
The US average is around 6% now, isn't it? And these weenies are complaining about 2% unemployment? Sheesh.

This 2% number is obviously false.

58 posted on 11/11/2002 7:05:39 AM PST by A. Pole
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