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Russia s Expulsion of Bishop Assailed by Vatican: "Grave Violation" of Religious Rights
Zenit.org ^ | 2002-04-21 | Zenit.org

Posted on 04/21/2002 5:34:47 PM PDT by history_matters

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To: Aliska
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21 posted on 04/21/2002 7:33:10 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Aliska
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22 posted on 04/21/2002 7:36:24 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: All
So I guess the Catholic church is not intent on proselytizing....that must be why the headline to the last link I posted says - "The conversion of Russia".
23 posted on 04/21/2002 7:37:47 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
Thanks for the link. It appears things are not going according to plan. Rick Salbato is in Portugal now.
26 posted on 04/21/2002 7:47:13 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: goldenstategirl
Catholic Church: Eastward Expansion

In 1439, the Florence council of Orthodox and Catholic high clergy formally united the two churches separated until then. The Pope felt triumphant. Yet the former Metropolitan turned Catholic Bishop Isidore was nearly torn apart by a crowd of the 'formerly Orthodox' who had no wish to fall into the bosom of the motherly Catholic Church. The Union of the churches fell through scandalously.

On February 11, 2002, the Vatican formalised its presence in Russia by establishing a full-fledged Catholic Diocese. A solemn mass was followed by a press release of the Pope John-Paul II himself, concerning the creation in Russia of a 'province of the Roman Catholic Church', according to Strana.ru website. This is how Russia has become just another province of the Vatican.

According to Russian Orthodox clergy, this is nothing if not an openly missionary activity on the part of the Vatican. As Alexei II, the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, wrote in his statement that did not take long to follow, 'The establishing in Russia of this church means an actual challenge to Christian Orthodoxy, which has been rooted in this country for many centuries. There has never been anything of this kind in the history of Russia. Moreover, such organisation of the Catholic Church is not typical even for purely Catholic countries where there are no Catholic provinces and whose dioceses are, in fact, governed by metropolitans'.

As goes public consciousness, the idea of 'missionary activities' is usually associated either with islands in Oceania or with redskins visited, in long ago times, by Catholic priests trying to spiritually enlighten savages wallowing in their sinful fallacies. Very often these priests were used for food.

Missionary activities in the country that adopted Christianity over a thousand years ago seem somewhat strange.

The last attempt to enlighten Muscovites was made by the Vatican in the 13th century when knights from the orders of Sword Carriers and Teutons were sent to baptise Slavic savages with sword and fire. That time, the forcible 'baptising' was very successfully stopped at the root by a good Christian believer, prince, later canonised St. Alexander Nevsky. Since then, there have been no more papal attempts to bring its version of the teaching of Christ to Russia by force. The Vatican's actions later became more 'politically correct'. These politically correct actions included the Florence Union of the churches, the quest of Dimitry, the pseudo-heir to the throne of Russia, who, by the way, did not at all justify the hopes invested in him by Polish Catholic Priests, and the much later setback the Orthodox Church suffered in Russia during the reign of Peter the Great, the pro-Western tsar. More than during other times, Catholic and other organisations flourished in the Russian Empire under Alexander I, when the majority of Russian aristocrats were under the influence of some ore other mystic teachings. The first and foremost among those was the teaching of Free Masons adhered to by great many Decembrists to be. The 'blessed emperor', however, changed his mind soon enough and banned all such 'non-governmental organisations'.

The following monarchs did not have much patience with Catholicism and allowed papal parishes to preach to churchgoers only if not too far from the western borders of the empire. Of course, while the Russian Orthodox Church was officially married to the state, another treatment of other churches could hardly be expected.

Today is a different time. Church is separated from state and secular powers-that-be of the Russian Federation allow all, be it totalitarian sects, scientologists, or harmless followers of the Society of Krishna Consciousness. Under such circumstances, the decision of the Vatican to create a Catholic diocese in Russia does not seem too farfetched. Indeed, without such entity as a diocese, handling parishioners true to the tradition of the Sacred Heart of Jesus is not easy at all.

However, remembering the traditions and history, the Vatican acts as 'politically correctly' as possible. Thus, in his statement, Thaddeus Condrusevic, who represents the Pope in Russia, wrote, 'to express our due respect for the dioceses of the Russian Orthodox Church and their highly respected arch-pastors, the Catholic dioceses in Russia are named after saints and biblical events rather than after the cities where their centres are located'. That is, not to confuse Tikhon, the Archbishop of Novosibirsk and Berdsk, and Joseph Vert, the Archbishop of Novosibirsk, the latter will be referred to as Joseph Vert, the Archbishop of the Hholy Transfiguration. In the meantime, the new stronghold of Catholicism in Russia, Moscow, will be called the Diocese of the Mother of God, probably not without a hinted reference to Russia being the Domain of the Mother of God, according to Russian Orthodox tradition. That the Vatican's move is not just religious but also strictly political is no big secret. The rhetoric of the official statement of Thaddeus Condrusevic, the head of the Catholic Church in Russia, is full of far from original cliches as goes assuring of 'mutual friendship and cooperation'. Such, for instance, is the expressed hope that 'the latest changes in the structure of the administrative units of the Catholic Church in Russia will be well understood by Russia' public, while serving the country's further progress on the way of democracy and religious freedom'. No doubt, having a dialogue is a good thing, yet there are limits to that. The assuring of friendship and cooperation sounds even stranger in the light of NATO's increasingly obvious eastward expansion.

Of course, at this time, the Russian Orthodox Church can hardly claim being the spiritual leader of the nation. The reasons for this are many, from the fact that over half of our people adhere to other religions to the profound internal crises and contradictions. Yet such an open expansion of Catholicism, the religion that has never been close to the people who have all their lives grown and lived under the influence, if often at the subconscious level, of the cultural and spiritual heritage of Russian Orthodoxy, absolutely must be met with a harsh response not only on the part of the Moscow Patriarchy but also on the part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

According to Strana.RU, 'The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has expressed its regret that the decision of the Pope John-Paul II was made without due consideration of the opinion of Russia's government'. The statement further reads, 'The Ministry of Foreign Affairs recommends that the Holy Throne abstain, for the time being, from transforming the administrative entities of the Catholic Church into dioceses and discuss the matter with the Russian Orthodox Church'.

Yet the Vatican's decision still stands. The question what may be the further response of the Russian Orthodox Church in need of preventing the outflow of its followers toward the foreign spiritual source remains open.

Pavel Zhitniuk, Rosbalt News Agency here

27 posted on 04/21/2002 7:48:32 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Stavka2
This pope needs to be retired. He seems to have much confusion in his mind.
While claiming to want to be invited to visit Russia and to want to extend a hand of friendship to the Russian Orthodox church - and he has said very kind things about the Russian church - he behaves in just the manner to alienate the Russian Orthodox.
He chooses for his companion on a controversial trip to Ukraine a known Russophobe, Ziggy Stardust. He is politely asked to stay home and told that his visit to Ukraine will cause difficulties, but he insists on adding it to his list of Orthodox countries to visit. In short he deliberately behaves in ways which are certain to alienate the Orthodox, all the while stating aloud how badly he wishes to befriend and unite with the Orthodox.
I think it is past time for the rest home.
28 posted on 04/21/2002 7:55:22 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
"The Conversion of Russia" is something Catholics have prayed for since 1917 -- it is an essential element of the apparitions of the Holy Mother of God at Fatima, Portugal. It is directed not against the Russian Orthodox faithful -- farthest from -- but it was a prayer against Communist Russia, atheism, and all the errors of Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism.
29 posted on 04/21/2002 7:56:38 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
There may be some bitterness on the part of Russia that the pope and Reagan worked together to bring down communism, in the process destroying the Russian economy.

It probably goes deeper than that. Prince Vladimir chose eastern orthodoxy because of the splendor of the Byzantine liturgy, back while the two were united. He rejected the Jewish religion because they had been hounded place to place and rejected the Muslim religion because the Russians couldn't do without their vodka. (From the book "Christ in Russia").

30 posted on 04/21/2002 7:56:54 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: MarMema
Please refrain from these attacks on the Pope. They are beneath you , MarMema.
31 posted on 04/21/2002 7:58:59 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Aliska,crazykatz
Or it might just be that we are tired of other "religions" coming to conquer us in the name of God, and we value good manners over vulture-like proselytizing.
32 posted on 04/21/2002 7:59:48 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: history_matters
I don't think it is an attack to point out that his behavior and statements are widely conflicting. I have yet to find a catholic who can explain this behavior to me. Yet we are considered suspicious and isolated because we view the pope warily.
33 posted on 04/21/2002 8:04:15 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: monday
I know that it is simple to mock an unknown face with the words on a keyboard ... after all we live in a purely physical and material world.

I am sorry that you cannot recognize the pain of mental/spiritual persecution which is rampant. That was my reference, too bad you just don't get it.
34 posted on 04/21/2002 8:06:20 PM PDT by AKA Elena
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To: MarMema
I am hoping that post has lost something in translation.

First, Ukraine is an independent nation. Second, there are and have been large numbers of Ukrainian Catholics. Third, there are no less than three Orthodox Churches claiming Ukraine of which 2 do not recognize any authority of Moscow over Ukraine. Fourth, even the Ecumenical Patriarch has had difficulty dealing with Patriarch Aleksy II and the Russian Orthodox Church. Goodness, the Russian Patriarch had the audacity to remove the Ecumenical Patriarch's name from the dyptichs during their disputes of late.

Shall we then talk about Patriarch Aleksy II and his relationship to the Soviet regime?

35 posted on 04/21/2002 8:08:02 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: MarMema
Are you Russian Orthodox? I'm sorry if you have been offended. I was afraid the rush into Russia by the western protestants and businessmen would cause problems.

Now they don't appear to want a catholic presence there.

36 posted on 04/21/2002 8:08:22 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: history_matters
Our Lord Jesus Christ who prayed that we all would be one.

That's right, history. So come home.

37 posted on 04/21/2002 8:09:32 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
I'm already home, but thank you all the same.
38 posted on 04/21/2002 8:11:20 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Aliska
I belong to the Orthodox Church of America, but all Orthodox are Orthodox, whether they are Russian, Greek, American, Serbian, Romanian, Bulgarian, or Antiochian. Hope I didn't miss anyone. :-)
39 posted on 04/21/2002 8:12:20 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: AKA Elena
We are truly under new forms of Persecution! Time for another prayer to ST. MICHAEL!

I did not know that Saint Michael was patron saint of visas and passports!

40 posted on 04/21/2002 8:15:10 PM PDT by A. Pole
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