Celibacy s history of power and money

National Catholic Reporter ^ | 4/12/2002 | Arthur Jones

[ninenot]

Gregory VII had to reaffirm it more forcefully 700 years later by invalidating the marriages of ordained priests

So what?

You are married, and I think you have children. How many times have you told little Sinky, JR., NOT to run into the street?

Simply repeating a law is not evidence of prior absence of said law.

[ninenot]

One of the very neat things about Catholicism is that everything is based on common sense. Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism and become ordained are allowed to retain their wives/families--it's common sense.

However, I do NOT recall any authoritative account stating that the Anglo/catholic priests continue sexual congress with their wives. Do you??

[sinkspur]

You are married, and I think you have children. How many times have you told little Sinky, JR., NOT to run into the street?

What a bizarre analogy. There's no evidence of people getting hit by cars not being severely injured, whereas men get married all the time and, most of the time, are better for it.

[joathome]

Sinkspur, some Catholics pride themselves on their differences with the rest of christianity--celibacy being one of the most obvious differences. No amount of history, no amount of talk of discipline instead of dogma, will convince them otherwise. They would rather drive to a church 100 miles away to "receive the sacraments" than be ministered to by a married shepherd of the flock who lives among his people and knows them.

And that's what they're going to get if things don't change.

[sinkspur]

However, I do NOT recall any authoritative account stating that the Anglo/catholic priests continue sexual congress with their wives. Do you??

You actually think, in the 21st century, that the Church, with a straight face, would tell married men to refrain from sex with their wives?

What parallel universe are you living in?

[sinkspur]

Other countries don't kneel from that point on.

My parish doesn't kneel from the Our Father to the distribution of the Eucharist. Quite European of us, isn't it?

[joathome]

Would you mind showing me those aramaic texts?

[ninenot]

Ahh, Sinky: totally incapable of understanding analogy. Aquinas must have been tough for you, my boy.

The analogy was: disobedience is frequent; the law is constant.

Your experience in marriage had nothing to do with the analogy.

OTOH, you don't really respond to points with which you cannot argue. You merely pout off another track.

[ninenot]

Geez, you are denser than I believed. Sacrificing relations for a greater good is a request the Church has made for several centuries.

You must think that all history started at about the time of your birth, as do the editors/publishers of National Catholic Reporter.

[ninenot]

Yes.

Now go back to Europe. I believe that Serbia has a number of bureaucratic positions which you could fill quite adequately.

[joathome]

And you are making assumptions as to what Christ said in Aramaic. You could NEVER win a high school debate with that one.

[sinkspur]

Sacrificing relations for a greater good is a request the Church has made for several centuries.

Can you point out when it has been made in the last two centuries?

The analogy was: disobedience is frequent; the law is constant.

The analogy was: fail to stop your kid from going into the street, and he will be killed versus strongly urge priests not to marry. It was not until Gregory VII invalidated marriages after ordination that celibacy took firm hold. Issuing edicts and threats did NOTHING to curtail the practice of priests marrying.

Aquinas must have been tough for you, my boy.

You want to discuss, let's discuss. If you want to trade insults, you will NOT win that battle!

[Mike Fieschko]

And you are making assumptions as to what Christ said in Aramaic. You could NEVER win a high school debate with that one.

No assumption. I'm quoting.

See St John 1:42: 'And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.'

(I'm using the KJV here.)

[Mike Fieschko]

My parish doesn't kneel from the Our Father to the distribution of the Eucharist. Quite European of us, isn't it?

No, I'll assume that your bishop or parish priest obtained an indult to permit the practice as an option.

I'll assume that, since else it's disobedience to the 'collegially acting' American bishops, or to your local bishop. (Sorry for the awkward phrase.)

[Mike Fieschko]

Good night, folks. And now I lay me down to sleep ...

[Catholicguy]

LOL "Final word on the matter" Just the opposite was being cited. I was speaking of the FIRST words on the matter and as far as we know, Pope Siticius' Decretal IS the initial Document re this current controversy and it was written PRIOR to 400 A.D.

It is interesting to note that Pope Siricius is NOT mandating something NEW. He is reminding ALL priest of an Apostolic admonition of mandatory celibacy. It wasn't new in 400 A.D. It was OLD, even back then.

What passes for "information" in the NCR is a pathetic joke

[joathome]

I don't think Christ had indulgences in mind. Sorry.

[SoothingDave]

What is the biblical basis for purgatory? Purgatory was defined by Catholic Tradition, which makes it binding on Catholics to believe. But you won't find anything about it in Scripture.

Thanks to another poster, I don't need to re-iterate the Biblical argument for such.

The point is that this author spoke of it as an "invention" which is a loaded anti-Catholic term. It is quite obvious he is in dissent.

And belief or non-belief in indulgences is indicative of nothing. I would wager half of today's Catholics don't know anything about them, except for Luther's railing against the selling of them, nor have 95% of Catholics tried to obtain an indulgence. Are these folks not Catholic either?

They are likely the poorly-Catechised fruit of the "spirit of Vatican II." I have seen pollw where half or less of professed "Catholics" believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Shall we abandon that teaching, since the people don't get it? Shall we mock it or call it an "invention."

SD

[SoothingDave]

My parish doesn't kneel from the Our Father to the distribution of the Eucharist. Quite European of us, isn't it?

Proud of your disobedience, aren't we? Whose idea was it to violate our national norms?

SD

[Askel5]

This just in, Jack Chick to draw a weekly cartoon for 'National Catholic Reporter'.

Lol ...

Thanks for your thoughtful replies.