Celibacy s history of power and money

National Catholic Reporter ^ | 4/12/2002 | Arthur Jones

[saradippity]

I hope you will pursue the Church teachings on celibacy and perhaps read the new testament yourself. This article,while it does show why so many Catholics are so woefully misinformed,is drivel.The fact that it was published in a purportedly Catholic newspaper is a clear indication of the contention of many that there is a church within the Church,that is gnawing away at the structure for the distinct purpose of collapsing it. If the USCCB was anything other than an oppurtunity for bishops to go on r&r and schmooze and booze they would take steps to put this propaganda machine out of business.Although given the way they have addressed or non-addressed the present scandal,they probably subsidize the NCR.

[saradippity]

Pardon me, but why in the world would priests who find the ill informed laity,who want Truths, which they know are not true, stay in the priesthood? Obviously they are oppurtunistic,hypocritical,lying dirt-bags.Perhaps they do not believe what the Church teaches,all they have to do is leave,like Martin Luther did. At least he had integrity,although at the end,in his lucid moments he did see the error of a lot of his ways.

Anyway the next time you talk to one of your many priest friends ask them if they don't find it hard to live and be sustained by lies. I really think they would enhance their self esteem if they left,and lived an "authentic" life.

[saradippity]

The only thing we know about Peter's marital status is that at one time he was married. We know this because he had a mother-in-law. For all the talk it is quite possible his wife died before Jesus chose him. I had a mother-in-law 20 years after my husband died.

[It's me]

...I'm also grateful you were saved from further inculcation by what passed for Catholic instruction at your seminary and relieved your posts do not carry the authority of "Father Sinkspur"...

Here, Here! I'll second that! and a very big AMEN! :)

[a history buff]

You completely misunderstood my posting. What concerns them are members of the laity, who, not knowing or understanding the complete history of some ideas, so insist on their implementation in an extreme form, that it becomes an embarassment. An extreme example would be the Italian peasantry who began an armed revolt when, during the Counter-reformation, restrictions were placed on the excessive veneration of saints. Every religious group, bar none, has some teachings that go down better with grains of salt. In the Catholic church, people without such discernment are said to be trying to be "more Catholic than the Pope."

For the record, I have yet to meet any priest, who in his own way, however flawed, is not trying to do the best he can for the Church. Disgusted as I am, I think that the recent problems are the result of bishops being overwhelmed, and not having the guts to make unpleasant decisions. Enron's auditors are among the many who could sing a similar tune.

[a history buff]

see # 68.

[sobieski]

NCR has pushed its agenda for married priests throughout the scandal. But as a extreme left wing publication, it has yet to touch the fact that this is a homosexuality question, not a celibacy question. Allowing married priests won't change the behavior of gays.

[heyheyhey]

With Catholics like this writer, who needs Protestants?

All Protestant Christians are actually more "Catholic" than this anti-Christian NCR mob.

[saradippity]

Sorry I misunderstood,if I did. A large number of priests I have been exposed to lately are haughty and speak of truth as relative and subject to change and personal interpretation.Since you are a history buff and since so many of the deconstructionists use "Jesus Seminar" techniques based on the historical Jesus,and there,find almost nothing to be Truth,I made an assumption that may have been incorrect.

Just last week I heard the Eucharistic Prayer changed to incorporate a "community in communion with one another" as the primary reason for our Sunday celebration. I frequently hear of the miracles Jesus performed as not miracles at all but just a way of getting people to share. When the abbot of the shrine of of Our Lady of Guadalupe made some remarks questioning the truth of the events,many Anglo priests here jumped at that and were oh,so concerned about how to tell these simple Hispanic believers that their favorite event probably did not occur. It was pathetic to listen to the priests feigned concern over this. They could hardly contain their glee. I guess I was conditioned to respond to your remark from my experience with priests who consider themselves "prophets".

Well,if you run into those kinds of priest tell them to do the honest thing and leave. They should preach the truth as they see it from someone else's pulpit.

[sfousa]

All Protestant Christians are actually more "Catholic" than this anti-Christian NCR mob

True, when it comes to biblical precepts.

But when it comes to history and development of such precepts, most protestants I encounter sound exactly like this article. They seemed bent on undermining the Church! Why don't these NCR mob just go away and join the protestants?

Notice that in this article, they have no mention at all of the Lord's reference to the "eunuchs for the kingdom" Mt 9:12 but instead, simplemindedly reduced the celibacy evangelican counsel to a matter of money.

How sad that NCR even considers itself Catholic!

[a history buff]

Deconstruction can go far too far. But excessive rigidity can also be very problematic.

[sfousa]

To: SteamshipTime

That it is a human policy is true.

Celibacy is not a "purely human policy" but an evangelical counsel, based on the Bible.

"Not all can accept this teaching; but those to whom it is given...There are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let him accept it who can." Mt: 19:12

Presumably, those who enter the priesthood think they can, and therefore they accept it. Those who cannot accept this requirement of the Church should not enter the priesthood.

And that's ALL RIGHT. There have been plenty of married Cathoic people have been proclaiming Jesus Christ for generations. And married protestant ministers have also been doing such great job - really great jobs - preaching the Gospel.

But this article misses the point when it says it's all about money. How pathetic!

[sfousa]

Ooops, the typo - sorry! That should be MATTHEW Chapter 19, verse 12.

God bless.

[Mike Fieschko]

Celibacy is not a "purely human policy" but an evangelical counsel, based on the Bible.

Thank you for the distinction.

[connectthedots]

Bump for later reading.

[ejo]

In reply to #29 ....It is true that years ago( without divulging my age) one always noticed the priests using the breviary which contained daily offices and prayers. There were designated hours one spent in prayer. Has this been discontinued by our clergy? And if so, then perphaps it should once again become the hallmark of their day.

[Eva]

The Nun that I was speaking to, gave me an example of a conference that she attended recently in Van Couver, BC, she said that after the speaker was finished and the question and answer period was over, there was time for prayer and devotions. None of the priests attended, they all went to play golf instead.

[GenXFreedomFighter]

How sad that NCR even considers itself Catholic!

And the New York Times considers itself a fair, unbiased, objective newspaper committed to reporting the truth. Go figure!

[foghornleghorn]

I don't get the point. Look, we have several cross currents at work here. First, there is the issue of true pedophelia, sexual activity with young girls/boys before puberty. This is a separate clinical issue. Then we have the problem of homosexuals in the priesthood, and their seeming inability to keep their pants up around teenage boys. This is a behaviorial issue. Both these kinds of people are relatively evenly dispersed in society, and will show up in other religions, in schools, in other institutions. But the two kinds need to be dealt with differently. Of course, any priest (or other person in a position of trust) that sexually accosts a minor of any age should be terminated and immediately reported to the authorities. It is a civil crime, as well as a sin. Now, having said that, the Church is in the business of forgiveness. Not civil forgiveness, but spiritual. These men still have to pay the civil penalty. Many church leaders in the past have given far too much leeway to these men, in the name of "compassion" and forgiveness. this can no onger be tolerated.

But in the process of addressing this, how do we prevent hysteria from taking over, like happened in the McMartin madness, the "pedophiles under the bed" frenzy that gripped many communities several years ago? Most of those allegations proved totally bogus. Several innocent lives were ruined. How do we protect good priests from the disgruntled, the anti-Catholic bigot, and the mentally disturbed? How do we dispassionately review allegations? Remember, men who enter the priesthood essentially give up everything for God, and all they have left are their reputations. It would be a terrible injustice to allow them to be smeared with such ugly charges without a reasonable chace at fair review.

Then there is the issue of recent, or ongoing acts versus those that happened many years ago. It appears that many acts occurred during the "let it all hang out" era of the sixties and seventies. Many of these persons have subsequently repented, or grown up, and now are straight and narrow. Should they be punished for a 30 year old act? If there still is criminal liability, yes. But if not? I don't know. They should probably be kept from minors to be safe, but can they contribute positively in other ways? I would hope so.

Like so may things in life, it's not that there is no right or wrong, but that there are so many subdivisions in which right and wrong have to be determined. I hope that when the bishops meet later in Texas they will carefully consider all the ramifications of this scandal, and that the spirit will be with them in their decisions.