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Small business hails Putin ... [now a corporate flat tax in Russia]
Russia Journal ^ | April 7, 2002 | Christopher Kenneth

Posted on 04/07/2002 12:57:08 PM PDT by stiga bey

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First a flat personal income tax and now this. Will somebody please 'splain to me how we let Russia, of all places, become more economically wise and fiscally advanced than us? Jeez, if this keeps up, I'm moving there. Petersburg is a lovely city.
1 posted on 04/07/2002 12:57:08 PM PDT by stiga bey
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To: stiga bey
We took the British mercantilist Capitalist system and improved on it. Wouldn't it be a hoot if the Russians, of all people, beat us at our own game.
2 posted on 04/07/2002 1:09:20 PM PDT by Arkie2
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To: Arkie2
Wouldn't it be a hoot if the Russians, of all people, beat us at our own game.

The Russians stole the BOMB from us.
They definitely beat us into space.

I salute them for stealing our flat tax idea and putting it to good use.

I'm sure former Soviet emmigrants might be contemplating a move back to the old country now that economic as well as political freedom have took root.

3 posted on 04/07/2002 1:17:07 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
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To: Arkie2
Not only will this, as the article says, bring an enormous amount of taxable income back into the open, thereby massively increasing government revenues, it will take a huge bite out of the endemic corruption there.

I've been saying that the only kind of campaign finance reform that will work is a flat tax. You have to reduce the amount of influence that the government can peddle if you want to reduce corruption. Call it "supply-side" campaign finance reform, if you will. If McCain was halfway intelligent and honest, he would have been beating Steve Forbes' drum.

Russia is on it's way to being a less corrupt and more transparent country than the USA. Sigh.

4 posted on 04/07/2002 1:21:06 PM PDT by stiga bey
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
Yeah, maybe I should take my Granddaddy back to Volgograd and see if his ancestral home is still there and up for sale. But after two world wars and God-knows how many purges of the Volga Deutsch, it's probably long gone.
5 posted on 04/07/2002 1:25:28 PM PDT by stiga bey
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To: stiga bey
Yeah, maybe I should take my Granddaddy back to Volgograd and see if his ancestral home is still there and up for sale. But after two world wars and God-knows how many purges of the Volga Deutsch, it's probably long gone.

I was thinking more about recent immigrants within the past decade or two.....and only if they could not cope with the complexity of American society.

The fact that you are a member of this forum places you in the top 1% of politically astute Americans.

6 posted on 04/07/2002 1:29:20 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
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To: stiga bey
This is analogous to the "opportunity" we gave to Germany and Japan to modrnize after WWII. Russia, now drawn to capitalism, is free to practice it in it's purest form. We in America have had over two centurys for the socialists to slowly erode what was once a great republic. Once that happens, it is over...it will never come back without revolution, but that, too, takes an enlightened populace, so don't hold your breath. I hate to be such a downer, such is the sentence of a realist.
7 posted on 04/07/2002 1:40:36 PM PDT by gorush
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To: stiga bey
All this article proves is that America is more communist than Russia.
8 posted on 04/07/2002 1:50:30 PM PDT by Holden Magroin
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
The fact that you are a member of this forum places you in the top 1% of politically astute Americans.

But for some reason, when I tell that to the other 99%, they don't buy it.

9 posted on 04/07/2002 1:50:54 PM PDT by stiga bey
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: stiga bey
The irony in your question is that because they don't have a built up welfare state from decades of prosperity mean that Russia lacks the competing interests to nullify a flat tax.Less taxpayer booty to redistribute makes for a less complicated tax code :-)
11 posted on 04/07/2002 2:11:15 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
One of the central examples in Bernard Goldberg's best selling book "Bias" is a legendary hatchet job by CBS in "reporting" Malcom Forbes reform proposal for the exact same tax system now in place in Russia!

It is one of history's astonishing ironies that Marxism lives on in the DNC and the American media, while it has been utterly rejected in Russia.

12 posted on 04/07/2002 2:16:18 PM PDT by friendly
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To: friendly
It is one of history's astonishing ironies that Marxism lives on in the DNC and the American media, while it has been utterly rejected in Russia.

I am adamant in explaining this to my friends.
Who would ever think that Russia would be friendlier to business in such a short time?

13 posted on 04/07/2002 2:28:34 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
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To: stiga bey

There is less here than meets the eye,

The major businesses(greater then 20 employees) make up 89% of the business done, and pay 30 - 35% in profits taxes,a broad ranging VAT, as well as excises on specific products.

The story above appears to be an echo of a similar one from the St Petersburg Times, which lays out the same information but indicates some resistance in the Duma for some of the provisions regarding Social taxes. Seems some want to put the Social taxes on the business alone and leave elevated rates.

See a description of Putin's proposal in St Petersburg Times

http://www.sptimesrussia.com/archive/times/757/top/t_6098.htm

As well as what the Russian Tax system currently looks like as a whole, to get a feel for the actual impact of the changes, if any, enacted.

http://www.bisnis.doc.gov/bisnis/country/000818rstxcde2.htm

The Russian system appears to be a European style VAT on steriods. The changes to the system have not modified the VAT rate nor its Structure, and in fact expanded the number products which are subject to their VAT to include medications and other previously exempt items.

The Russian politicians appear to have an even better shell game than our politicians do.

14 posted on 04/07/2002 2:36:40 PM PDT by ancient_geezer
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To: Glasser
Once the refi easy money is gone and people have to start facing the reality of hard times they will have more incentive to change the system. Right now we are just too comfortable. The only other option will be full fledged communism. If Hillary is elected in 04 then you know what the choice will be.
15 posted on 04/07/2002 3:03:40 PM PDT by willyone
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To: stiga bey
I wrote this the other day, but hated to post it as a vanity. So I'm glad you've given me an excuse.

The Tax Gap

First it was the "Bomber Gap". Then the "Missile Gap". Then the space race.

Now there is a new gap and the Russians are undoubtedly ahead of us. And this time, the outcome could really determine which country leads the world. What’s worse, our government isn’t even in the race.

In January, 2001, Russia took a giant leap forward by enacting a 13% flat tax. While this was certainly more significant than the launch of Sputnik, it got little attention in the US press and virtually no attention from our government. Most Americans have not even heard that Russia has taken the lead in this vital area.

The flat tax has been, as any decent economist would have predicted, wildly successful. The Russian economy has grown by leaps and bounds. This has caused the government’s tax revenues to skyrocket by 28%.

Not content to sit on their laurels, the Russian President, Vladimir Putin, has announced plans to cut taxes for small business – the driving force behind any modern economy. In addition to cutting their tax rate, Putin intends to roll back the tax-related regulations that are hamstringing small businesses in Russia.

In the meantime, here in the US, state governments are busily enacting more taxes on things like candy, garden seeds, and yarn. The Democrats in Congress are demagoguing targeted tax cuts, saying that they will come out of the entirely fictional Social Security Trust Fund. When will our politicians ever learn that lowering the tax rate increases tax revenues?

The bomber gap and the missile gap didn’t really exist. The space race was a public relations gimmick. But the tax gap is of real importance because taxes act as a drag on the economy. The economy with the lowest drag will grow faster than those burdened by higher taxes. This is a race we cannot afford to lose if we would maintain our primacy in world affairs.

So what can we do to beat the Russians in the all-important contest? We could adopt a flat tax like they have, and our economy would soar like their economy has. But why simply imitate the Russians? Why adopt half-measures? The income tax is a tax on earning and work – the very things we need to encourage if we want our economy to grow. We should adopt a tax on spending.

Imagine never having to fill out personal tax forms again. Imagine a country where businesses did not make decisions based sole on tax implications. Imagine a country where all of the brain power and effort that now goes into getting around the tax system were channeled into productive directions. And lastly, imagine a country without the IRS.

Without the chains of an income tax, our economy would skyrocket. The country would prosper as never before. Governmental revenues would go through the stratosphere. And we would be ahead of the Russians.

That’s a race worth winning.

16 posted on 04/07/2002 3:05:27 PM PDT by Rule of Law
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To: Holden Magroin
All this article proves is that America is more communist than Russia.

And will be as long as we keep electing socialists like GW Bush.

17 posted on 04/07/2002 3:07:12 PM PDT by Rule of Law
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To: Glasser
America may be the most Socialist SuperPower on Earth in a decade or two.

We'll be socialist. But we won't be a superpower.

18 posted on 04/07/2002 3:07:53 PM PDT by Rule of Law
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To: Arkie2
I am sorry to interrupt this thread--but I keep asking for help to LOG OFF and no one, including Mr. Robinson, will reply!

What is going on? Please let me know how to log off.

19 posted on 04/07/2002 3:08:20 PM PDT by IceGirl2
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To: friendly
It is one of history's astonishing ironies that Marxism lives on in the DNC and the American media,...

You left out GOP.

20 posted on 04/07/2002 3:09:16 PM PDT by Rule of Law
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