The scourge of celibacy

The Boston Globe Magazine ^ | 3/24/02 | Garry Wills

[Taliesan]

I don't agree with those who say "celibacy is the problem" simplistically, as if no-one can expect males to not assault children if they have no consort, but I did find this historical argument strong:

Celibacy arose as just one component in a thoroughgoing theology of asceticism. The desert father who pioneered the practice of celibacy adopted it as just one part of a larger pattern of isolation and meditation, of fasting and other forms of mortification. When priests adopted celibacy, they brought with it some of this structure and most of its rationale. They were not set apart from other men by just one thing. In the monasteries, for instance, silence, isolated cells, long communal chanting of the office, and self-scourging were common. Cloistered men and women were cut off from worldly life in general, not just from sexual activity.

But, progressively, the celibacy of priests became not the expression of a whole ascetical form of life but a substitute for it.

[End Times Sentinel]

I don't agree with those who say "celibacy is the problem" simplistically, as if no-one can expect males to not assault children if they have no consort…

Some of the less meticulously thought out arguments state that if there was no vow of celibacy, there would be a larger pool of candidates for priesthood and thusly The Church could be more selective.

Of course, using that logic, you could drastically expand the pool of candidates by dropping being Catholic as a requirement.

Celibacy has NOTHING to do with this horrible perversion. The Church moving to the left and the infusion of those who have issues with judging the morality of others has everything to do with this issue.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

[Rodney King]

If celibacy caused pedophilia, then little girls would be getting molested as well. 90%+ of the victims are boys. Plus, most of these kids are teenagers, older than the normal pedophile target group.

The problem is not pedophilia, it is homosexuality. And the practice of not engaging in sexual acts can not possibly be the cause of sexual acts.

[The Cuban]

When did the editors of the boston globe get a theological degree? And further Questions

IS celibacy related to pedophilia?
Are general population pedophiles ussually celibate before they engage in pedophilia?
What percentage of the general population are pedophes?
Is this rate higher or lower among priests?
What percentage of pedophiles engage in otherwise non-celibate lifestyles?
These are the questions that should be asked but are not.

[ffrancone]

Most of the molestation (90% plus) was male on male. Two qustions:

(1) Assuming that the homosexual priests are celibate, isn't this an indictment of homosexual celibacy, at most.

(2) Why does the author assume that the homosexual priests who molest children are celibate? Seems to me that they are emphatically not celibate as to children. Why do we think they are celibate as to adults?

Seems to me what we have here is a problem of homosexuals (celibate or otherwise) in positions of authority with respect to boys.

The boy scouts do not have this problem. I suppose it could be because boy scout troop leaders are not required to be celibate. But I suspect strongly that it is because boy scout leaders may not be homosexual and, therefore, do not want to have sex with little boys.

[Taliesan]

And the practice of not engaging in sexual acts can not possibly be the cause of sexual acts.

Just out of curiosity, did you actually read the article?

[Bogie]

You're right. The confessions of Augestine had more to do with it. However, it seems that a culture of homosexuality has developed in America's Catholic Abbeys.

And, it seems as if it has been that way for a long time. As long as I can remember.

[Taliesan]

I don't think he is saying that celibacy causes abuse, as many have. He is saying that the aura of celibacy helps cloak abuse.

[Taliesan]

Did you read the article?

[Bogie]

#8

Bingo!

[Rodney King]

Not more than what is posted on FR.

[Campion]

How thoroughly will hell have to freeze over before we get an article from Garry Wills entitled "The Scourge of Homosexual Priests"?

Garry Wills is why I no longer give money to Northwestern University, my alma mater. The man has a heavy-duty anti-Catholic agenda.

[Taliesan]

FWIW, I think celibacy is an important part of the monastic commitment, and if priests share in the monastic charism let them be celibate. To the degree the priests' celibacy is part of a larger ascetic lifestyle it will function less like repression and more like holiness.

That is the specific historical and theological comment here and the genuinely new thing I saw in the article.

It will be of little use to pour the same old knee-jerk arguments for and against celibacy into the thread.

The subject of the discussion is the context of celibacy.

[Taliesan]

I agree he overstates his case. I did not know he had an anti-Catholic agenda.

What do you think of his specific historical critique, that celibacy was originally a monastic charism, and became extracted from its supporting context?

[Randjuke]

Thanks for the post. There was a good article in the WSJ recently talking about this problem (sorry I don't have a link) which pointed out that only 6% of the world's Catholics are from the USA. The Boston Globe article fails to realize that, implying that because 80% of American Catholics think priests marrying is OK, the Vatican should automatically comply. Catholicism is truly a global religion, and the church must consider the effects of policy change on a global basis. Most of the current growth in the Catholic church is in the southern hemisphere, where I gather celibacy is considered a much important attribute.

The point that this really is much more of a homosexuality problem than a pedophilia problem also tends to be minimized in the press. As others have pointed out, 90% of those molested were male, most of those being older teens.

None of this excuses any sort of cover-up by the church, in my opinion those involved in a cover-up should be dealt with as severely as those who molested. The media, however, seems to be grabbing the opportunity to Catholic-bash (I am not Catholic by the way) once more, using the molestation problem to advance their already-held ideas.

[Taliesan]

BTW, I've always respected you and am honored that you would post on the thread. I did not post the article in order to slam the Church, but because I thought I saw one or two new points.

I am not a Catholic, but respect the RC church as much as any protestant could, I think. That may not mean much to you, but I hope it means something.

[eastsider]

Re: Did you read the article?:

It's astonishing how many experts there are on celibacy, pedophilia and all things Romish. </sarcasm>

[Taliesan]

The Boston Globe article fails to realize that, implying that because 80% of American Catholics think priests marrying is OK, the Vatican should automatically comply. Catholicism is truly a global religion, and the church must consider the effects of policy change on a global basis.

Excellent point.

[CasearianDaoist]

This is driving me NUTS!!!! Can we stop calling this "Pedophila" and start calling it for what it is: homosexual rape of teenage boys!

[eastsider]

Catholicism is truly a global religion, and the church must consider the effects of policy change on a global basis.

The global West has only to look to the global East to see the effects of a non-celibate diocesan clergy.