Posted on 03/25/2002 7:30:44 AM PST by truthandlife
The first person who claims self-resurrection will be evil.
No stuart, I don't question the skepticism. I quite understand it, and really don't expect anyone who does not have a personal relationship with the risen Christ to do anything but doubt the resurrection.
You are right that no other one in history claims to have returned from the dead. No one else did, but the Son of the living God.
It is amazing to see the mental hoops which people will jump through in order to hold onto a worldview. Luke 16:31.
Stuart, I have found you to be more pleasant than other skeptics on this forum; but at a certain point skepticism becomes a silly parody of sophistication. I pray that you stop refusing to see. It does wonders for blindness.
This by itself is pretty good proof. I mean put yourself in the situation. I'm pretty impressed with the accomplishments of my own brother but it would take a whole lot more to convince me that he was God. :)
OK, I guess I can see kinda where you're coming from. However, it seems rather odd that you're able to believe in and pray to God, yet insist on a mass-media broadcast of the Resurrection.
Perhaps you can clarify?
I have no idea what the numbers were then, but there are far more people on the earth so I suppose, percentage wise, it could be similar, though I think there were less then simply because medicine today informs us earlier of our pregnancies.
But belief in God makes it easy to believe in the Resurrection. Surely the Creator of the universe is capable of resurrecting one human body!
In general, I think the real difficulty with the Resurrection seems to be less with the possibility of it, than with the claims that Jesus is God.
One is certainly unlikely to accept Jesus as a result of purely rational arguments. Instead, it is by grace that He makes himself known.
Jesus knew this, as the story of Thomas shows: Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." (John 20:27-29)
You're taking the position of Thomas -- and we'd all love to be able to see for ourselves that Jesus is truly Risen.
But to see for ourselves would imply something much more disturbing: that Jesus is real, and that He meant what He said. It would mean that God can meet us eye to eye -- that he's flesh and blood and a real human voice, and not just some still, small voice that we can ignore when it's convenient to do so. It means that God is great big, and we're really small, and we've been caught being naughty.
It's damned scary is what it is.
Or, it's the ultimate comfort -- knowing that you can climb on His lap and be forgiven, like you did on your dad's when you were little.
Correct. In a millieau of MANY who have claimed to be somebody; who have shouted 'Follow Me God!' It would take something pretty extraordinary for the ONE who actually was'nt nuts or lying to put his claim on the unique level it needed to be, now would'nt it?
Please tell me what is as realistic as resurrection.
As realistic as a pack of cowards, envious and jealous of each other, resurfacing 6 weeks after their leader was killed and they scattered to face down the people they were hiding from, united behind an uneducated fisherman that was the biggest coward of them all.
As realistic as an uneducated man arguing down the most learned theologians of his day on their opinion of the first leader of the group.
As realistic as 11 and then hundreds and then thousands of people putting aside their personal agendas to devote them selves to one misssion.
As realistic as ten men going to their deaths praising the name of their first teacher, when all they had to do was acknowledge the "reality" that once some one dies, they do not come back and that their claims to the contrary about their first teacher were lies.
As realistic as a trained and educated priest that was given the assignment of stamping out a sect of uneducated, dangerous dissidents, renouncing his life as priviledged leader, living in comfort and respected by his fellows, to become one of the most effective spokesman for those he tried destroy.
As realistic of that man enduring all the things he did for 30 years, not wavering in his statements about the Messiah, and who that is.
As realistic as that man going to death without renouncing a faith found on a dirt road between Jerusalem and Damascus, when that simple act would have saved his life.
As realistic as G-d doing all the work needed to reconcile us to him, thus putting to end the man made idea that a person can "do things" to "get right" with God.
What is so believable about rising from the dead?
On the face of it, it is'nt. But it is a whole lot more believable than any other explanation for the early days of the Christian Church.
Seems to me, since it is basically a fact (You can't have "Faith" once something has been proven...You don't need it anymore), I would use that as my argument in your position. It's so simple and direct. Not to mention, unarguable.
There are too many variations.
FAITH IS WHAT SEPERATES US FROM ALL OTHER ANIMALS
Even if Christ did not ressurect, it hardly matters, as His message is the important thing. The Bible can and is far richer when taken figuratively, rather than literally.
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