Posted on 03/15/2002 12:44:48 PM PST by dixie sass
People are responsibel for their collective actions. YOu could have said that same thing about Nazi Germany: there were only a few thugs woh perpetrated atrocities. But it was the bulk of German people who either sympathized with them or were indifferent. If we learned anything from that experience is that the bystanders are not innocent.
Where is the author of the letter when he hears ten times a day "death to the Jews," "death to America." Does he protest? Does he think that we are "people," not all of whom are politicians? Has he ever talked to someone and said, we are going too far? When he hears of a madrassah, where a particularly haetful sermons are given, has he ever proposed to close it? ALl he is saying, "I personally did not do that, whay are you angry at me? Because his son did it, and he raised his son; because his neighbor did it, and he did nothing to stop that.
Among Arabs speaking from both sides of the mouth is not only different from dishonesty, it is often equated with wisdom. Please read up more on what is hoing on in Arab press, where they do not mince the words. TYou can start with the reliable translations of MEMRI, if you so wish.
After reading this piece, there is one conclusion drawn. Propaganda... arabian style(they should have studied Goebbels a little deeper).If this open letter to his Excellency, Mr.Cheney, were written by your average Habib Six Camels, come and see me 'cause I have some used bridges to sell to you. Let's see...
He is comparing "bin laden" to Timothy McVeigh...wrong comparison, for the very reason that McVeigh was a loner(no gang)who got bent out of shape for the government fiasco in Wako, Texas.
98.9 percent of terrorist acts throught the world are committed by perpetraitors from arab countries. A proven fact.
Noticed the use of the word "VIPER"?...I have not heard/read anywhere in the American media(if my memory serves me right)any reporting using that description for the Saudies and/or any other nation for that matter.
I could go on and on...but I had to comment on the obvious.
Just to give you an example, an American writer penned a three-page article in the Spectator of London entitled: Down With Saudi Arabia. In it he called for the heads of our leaders on a plate, the division of the country, and the surrender of Mecca and Medina to the Hashimites. I'm sure you agree that his ideas are preposterous, but what and who are we to believe these days? Now if I or another Saudi wrote an article entitled: Down with America, the whole world will accuse us of being terrorists calling for violence.
I think this is definitely written by a Saudi, but whether he is an "everyman" or a prince of public relations, I'm not sure. The portion I quote is almost exactly what the King or a Prince of Saudi said, in complaining about the U.S. media's anti-Saudi stance since 9/11. I am still amazed that they think the news media is under government control and they can shut down or affect both the Spectator and CNN. That may be in Saudi Arabia, but not in the U.S.
How do I put this politely .......
Yeah, right! Thanks for the laugh!
To broker a peace, both sides have to want peace. I've seen no evidence that the Pals or any of the Arab states really want peace with Israel. Egypt signed a deal 25 years ago, but it has turned out to be more window dressing than anything else.
Our support of Israel is a historical imperative, derived from the Holocaust. If you choose to characterize our pledge to assure Israel's existence as "one sided", then I would urge you to try and come up with a single other country in the whole world which is committed to Israel's continuance, and is not playing serious footsy with the Arab states.
Without us, sadly enough, Israel is gone.
You don't get it, and you should be afraid.
America has more earthly power than you can comprehend.
You think you know what we are capable of doing, but you have not grasped the gravity of your situation.
We don't need your oil. We already have the technologies to run our society without petroleum.
We've perfected Tesla's ideas.
We have directed energy beam weapons. (Ask Noriega about the Panamanians whose bodies melted from the effects of the microwaveguide "rifles.")
We have weather control. The HAARP array is just one means. The next time you go on pilgrimage, wear you snow suit, and bring your liferaft. And sunscreen 45.
We accept the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction if FREEDOM is ultimately threatened. If any part of America is irradiated, your pilgrimage will be a crawl on a sheet of fused glass as far as your blinded eyes could have have seen.
We've used nukes before to hasten the end of a war. We'll do it again if we must.
You won't be able to hide. Our surveillance satellites can read the bumper sticker on your limo and count your camel's road apples.
We have electro-gravitic propulsion for our silent airships to deliver fire from the skies. Do you think we only went to the Moon (whose god you worship) in little aluminum beer cans? That was just some fighter pilots showing off with spare parts from the back warehouse thirty years ago.
Those bases on the dark side of the Moon and on Mars are nice places to visit, but most Americans still prefer the Heartland.
You think Area 51 is just a fantasy dreamland? Dream on. That's just the one you've heard about.
We have long range electronic mind control that will convince you that Jehovah Himself is raining brimstone on you head. You think Saddam's Republican Guard turned tail because a few tanks came over the dunes?
Your letter was addressed to an elected United States government official whom you seem to think rules America.
You don't get it. Nobody rules America.
Our federal government "officials" are more afraid of America than you are, and with good reason. They know us a little better than you do. But even they don't know that they don't know America well. They think they can control us and lead us like sheep into a global totalitarian state.
They think there might be 80 million citizens who are gun owners. They don't know.
They think that mercenary soldiers and police can intimidate Americans. They don't know. (Remember the Branch Davidians down Waco way? They didn't surrender even in the face of the flamethrowing tanks and poisonous gas sent in by beast government.)
America is very slow to anger. We aren't much bothered by buzzing gnats, even lethal ones. We have to be hit hard before we get riled up.
We're riled now.
Polititians may believe in Realpolitick and the earthly power that they think they wield.
America believes in individual unalienable rights and pledges life, fortune, and sacred honor to defend them. Once they knew the score, the citizen militia on Flight 93 didn't wait for the politicians to tell them what to do.
We know that those rights don't come from some man-made earthly government, but from the Creator of Heaven and Earth.
That is the real power of America that you don't comprehend. There are a lot of people living in the United States who don't get it,either.
We don't care if you don't believe this. You will.
Oh, by the way, Clinton doesn't live here anymore.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured
According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".
The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned "it is a sinful to approach them".
The father of one of the dead girls said that the school watchman even refused to open the gates to let the girls out.
"Lives could have been saved had they not been stopped by members of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice," the newspaper concluded.
Relatives' anger
Families of the victims have been incensed over the deaths.
Most of the victims were crushed in a stampede as they tried to flee the blaze.
The school was locked at the time of the fire - a usual practice to ensure full segregation of the sexes.
The religious police are widely feared in Saudi Arabia. They roam the streets enforcing dress codes and sex segregation, and ensuring prayers are performed on time.
Those who refuse to obey their orders are often beaten and sometimes put in jail.
I cannot equate the "righteous indignation" seen in the letter to Cheney with this kind of story. They use to have something similar in New England during Puritan times, but it didn't last. I don't think those early Pilgrims would have done what these people did. How can one society judge another when we are so different. The only thing that we seem to have in common is the male and female of the species and the ability to think.
I have a friend who grew up over there in the American Oil camps. I have a hard time understanding the wonderful stories that she told me about growing up over there, the way that she was treated when invited by the Crown Prince with what I read the stories from their own press and that of BBC, etc.
Jesus Christ "sacrificed" himself on the cross some years ago, and the entire Christian world continues to thank him for it daily.
I find it very difficult to believe you actually think that is a true comparison.
If you do, you must think people here at FR have the I.Q. of a snail or you have the thinking capacity of a 2 x 4.
IMHO, Trolling at it's worst.
Need I recall to your Excellency that America has its own brands of neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klansmen, and all sorts of weirdoes?
Frankly, I am a little tired of this comparison. Anytime the clan or neo-Nazis throw a rally, they are outnumbered 100-1 by protesters, and often must be protected by fences and police. Let me know when the same thing happens to venom spewing islamics here or anywhere else in the world, ok Mr. everybody's middle class saudi? Also let me know when the klan murders 2,900 random civilians in one day. We might have some sort of comparison or moral equivalence at that point, so keep a look out.
Jesus Christ "sacrificed" himself on the cross some years ago, and the entire Christian world continues to thank him for it daily.
Sinkspur seemed to think my statement was "insipid," and JZoback wrote ... "I find it very difficult to believe you actually think that is a true comparison"; and then both Sinkspur and JZoback -- without refuting the truth in MY statement -- attacked me, the messenger, .
There's a famous name for that side-stepping-the-issue approach, and it is not "dialogue."
Victor Hugo put it well in Les Miserables (Page 997, Signet unadbridged version) when he wrote: "Examination by hatred: (is) a terrible thing."
Here. I'll refute it again:
To compare the actions of the Savior of the World with the actions of a murdering thug who kills innocents (Jesus SAVED the guilty, including the murdering thug, if he wants it), is the height of stupidity.
There. I didn't attack you. I attacked your nonsensical statement.
Defend it.
I am still trying to find the truth in your statement.
I think you're trolling, unless you can find a correlation between both statements with a logical analysis, which I think you can't because each statement implies that sacrifice was the motivation,
People who blow themselves up, do it for a selfish reason, like getting 72 virgins, as opposed to Christ sacrificing himself for a self-less reason.
In other words suicide bombers sacrifice themselves up to take out victims and get a greater reward and Christ give himself up as a sacrifice so we would not be victims.
One person's faith is another person's nonsense -- Jesus Christ may have been a good guy, but terms such as "Savior of the World" and "SAVED the guilty" are nonsense to me.
find a correlation between both statements with a logical analysis ...
My argument is that any ethics that produces far more evil than good is essentially evil.
And the correllation in the two statements involves, as Zoback noted, the Ethics of Sacrifice -- the same ethics followed by Christians, Muslims, Communists, Socialists, those that prefer death to life -- the ethics where justice is denied the innocent and not delivered to the guilty -- the ethics that produces far more evil than good.
PS -- " the height of stupidity" -- another hateful slur.
This makes no sense.
Where do Christians prefer death to life?
You better quit while you're ahead, pal. You look more foolish with each post.
Is it not your Christian objective, in your every action, to live in accordance with your Christian faith so that you may remain eligible to serve God after death? Does not your religion require your allegiance, to the point of choosing death over life, in the defense of your faith? Does not your religion worry more about feeding living pagans -- to save their souls -- over feeding faithful humans that are dying of starvation? Is not death as a Christian preferable to life as a human?
My religion feeds everbody; no distinctions.
Is not death as a Christian preferable to life as a human?
No. It is important to me to die as a believer in Christ, but I want to live just as much as anybody.
Frankly, in America, I never think of having to "die for my faith."
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