Posted on 02/04/2002 6:15:27 PM PST by JoeMomma
Those pathetic buildings (public and private) that we pass off for schools that are nothing more than glorified daycares and about as capable of preparing American youth for the global economy as Jerry Springer,
Universities that are to pre-occupied with doing corporate research and subsidizing it that it has become to expensive for most families to put their children through university for professional degree (If Bayer wants to give Guinea Pigs Herpes, they can do it with their own money)
America has to import so many professionals because we can't produce our own. I have many H1-B's on my staff because I NEED THEM.
You hear so much about the scores of unemployed skilled workers, okay lets have a look at these unemployed people, most of them are obsolete or .com refugees
If you are obsolete that isn't my problem, you might be a great FORTRAN developer, but we don't use Fortran and have not used it for quite some time.
As for the .com brats, don't get me started on this group of primadonnas... try don't seem to have any conception of how things work in the real world, $40,000 and full benefits for entry level information technology is very competitive. And these punks look at me like I just propositioned them. Mr.Purple Goatee doesn't understand in the real world you don't get paid $80,000 a year to make web pages and expect them to come to work before 2:00 in the afternoon!
America has to make a choice, we can continue with our international discrace of an education system and continue to let our publically funded universities subsidize a trillion dollar industry and in a few generations we will look like a British Colony in the 19th Century as a result of making it impossible for American youth to have a competitive education.
In the 21st Century we are educating American youth the same way we did in the 19th Century? am I the only one who sees a problem with this?
If you don't like H1-B visas then pull your kids out of school and send them to a country that knows how to educate their children
Contrary to popular belief companies do not save money with H1-B visa's, it costs a fortune to bring a person over here, we do it because we don't have a choice.
If You Think Education Is Expensive, Try Ignorance
You're obviously not a conservative, because conservatives oppose corporate welfare. What are you doing on FreeRepublic?
My understanding is that, per CFO mag (a pro-H-1B publication), an H-1B costs a company about $6000 per head. Given that H-1B's work for 10-25% below the market rate that an American would work for, that's a net savings to the company in salary expense. The H-1B visa fee is $1000.
As for my own job security, I'm not worried. My skills are up to date. The only threat to my job would be an unmarried worker -- a local or H-1B -- willing to work my job for less money.
You don't need H-1Bs. Employers just justify that so they can abstain from hiring qualified Americans who might demand more of a salary. I'd be willing to bet that for every H-1B on your staff, there is a merit-qualified American within a 10 mile radius (if you're in a large city) who'd do the job for 15% more salary than your H-1B.
The CFO magazine is the smoking gun. They admit that H-1B is about one thing -- cheap labor.
Thanks for the BTTT. This is an important issue that needs to be addressed. Fortunately, Rep Tom Tancredo has a bill that will limit H-1B visas to correspond to the rececssion.
The fact that corporations are laying off tech workers while simultaneously lobbying for more H-1Bs is proof enough that corporations have a demand for cheap labor. It's outrageous, and sadly, President Bush is on the wrong side of this issue.
I guess corporate CEOs give more campaign contributions than do unemployed tech workers.
Well, if you know where to find them, then you should really start a head-hunting service 'cause we sure as hell can't
And are you suggesting I have a patriotic duty to pay some snotty punk $80,000 a year just because he demands it?
And for the record, we pay H1-B's the same ammount as their American counterparts and we pay to bring their family over if they so choose, we also have a program to assist them in getting residency and citizenship if they so choose,
Yeah, I bet the H-1B on staff would do the job for 15% more salary too, whats your point? Are you saying that the "merit-qualified" American is unemployed because he refuses to work for the going rate? He would rather sit around and have his wife or parents support him? Why doesnt he get an education and offer a service that is needed by industry.
Again, you're obviously not a conservative, because conservatives oppose corporate welfare of this sort.
Perhaps you're one of the few people who actually use the program honestly and not for salary-redux purposes. A recent article ion CFO Magazine is a smoking gun though. The H-1B is primarily used to reduce the salaries that American tech workers can demand.
But your claims really beg the question -- isn't it cheaper to train an slightly-less-than-qualified American than to go the H-1B route and bring their family over and assist them with citizenship. I'm familiar with personnel and immigration matters, and I'm not oblivious to the rather minimal costs of the H-1B program and costs to train employees. In fact, training an American programmer in a new programming language is actually cheaper than the rather pricey steps you mentioned above since programming languages build on one another -- if you understand one of them, you can easily pick up and become proficient in another. I have a lifetime 50-something mainframe programmer on my staff that I'm having ZERO trouble training in a Linux enivornment and web programming. And it costs less than H-1B costs although he costs me more in salary than an H-1B.
For a 6-year H-1B visa, it's a net cost savings to the company because you're getting someone who will work for a lower-than-market salary for that period of time. If you convert that person's visa to an L-1 after one year, you have cheap labor for as long as you want.
AGain, I know the costs involved in the H-1B program, and they are more than it would take to train an American with progrgamming skills and less than the salary that American would demand. I think the bottom line is the bottom line -- H-1B is for salary redux purposes.
Plus the H-1B program is rampant with abuse -- there's a loophole big enough for a Mack truck to go through. Anyone who gets an H-1B can fire the 'redundant' American worker the next day and enjoy the cost savings of the H-1B.
That 'going rate' was rigged by the US Government in their artificial H-1B flood of the job market. Only corporate interests would ask the government to put corporate salary savings over the needs of Americans.
He would rather sit around and have his wife or parents support him? Why doesnt he get an education and offer a service that is needed by industry.
There are Americans with skills out there. They just get looked over because H-1Bs have driven the salary down artificially by flooding the job market.
As a conservative you should not support corporate welfare of this manner. H-1B is corporate welfare.
You keep throwing out this statement but Ive not seen anywhere in any of the crap that youve posted what you mean? How many dollars is the Federal Government spending on this program besides the cost of stampting a visa application? Are you saying the government is going out and actively recruiting these employees? If you want to win over any but the race baiters and anti immigration people you need to get a hell of a lot more specific.
I hope you own or are at a high level in your company. If your management found out you were paying more to an unqualified applicant to learn a computer language than you could to hire a qualified applicanat to immediately address your companies problems and needs, they might fire you. Intead of paying them to work, you are paying them to learn to work. With typical gratitude, they will cross the street and work for your competitor shortly after they get trained and get a better offer.
Sounds like affirmative action to me. Like going out and hiring only blacks over whites regardless of their past performance, just so you can be politically correct.
Ah, let's see if we can explain this to you.
Corporations solicit the government for a program to allow them to import labor under the guise that there is a shortage of qualified workers, when in fact there is not nor was there ever. The government then eases immigration restrictions in specific classes of labor in response to this request even though there has never been a shortage of labor.
The end result is that the cost for labor is reduced. Which from a corporate standpoint is fine, however from an individual standpoint, it sucks.
The free market that so many in corporate America claim to revere appears to not apply to the labor market.
The H1-B program can be summarized as nothing more than SCAB LABOR.
Think of it in these terms, for every H1B laborer in this country that holds a job, there is one less job available for a graduating college student, unemployed technician, or engineer.
Now just what don't you understand about this?.
---max
Their philosophy of the free market system is unhibited, unfettered access to labor not just in the US but in the world. There are plenty of programmers in this country to do these jobs, and many more who'd be willing to do them if not for the competition of cheaper foreigners.
What escapes the grasp of these corporations is that without a strong, viable working middle class who's going to buy their products? Henry Ford was an anti-semite and a fascist. But before that stupidity infected his brain, he understood the concept of giving his employees a livable wage. Who was going to buy his cars if people couldn't afford them? There are actually many in the corporate world (and some in Congress) who would like to do away with minimum wage laws. If only they didn't have that pesky standard to meet, then think of how much more money they could get at Christmas?
If India is such a smart country with so many brilliant programmers out-programming us, then why is their country a third world hell hole? Because they don't require of their companies what we do here, a fair wage for a day's work. The same goes for Mexico and most other countries in the world.
These suicidal policies of "bring in the world" to compete in the labor force is going to do nothing more than eventually turn us into the same kind of country these people are leaving.
The often repeated excuse for a race to the bottom. The implied premise is that the US must be entirely immersed in this "global economy". The extent to which the US is involved in the "global economy", and therefore the degree of threat to the standard of living of US citizens need not be a done deal. We can participate in global trade to the extent it benefits the citizens of this country.
Get a skill someone is willing to pay more than minimum wage for or suffer the consequences.
The consequences of competing with Indian or Chinese labor in any job or profession is lower wages for the American. Global labor competition will result in a globally weighted average wage.
Regards
J.R.
I was talking about your comment on "borders". Yes, what does that have to do with H1B visas? Yet you had to slip it in anyway. LOL.
(H-1B -- it not just for IT and other high-tech positions anymore)
It's always fun when companies do this. Every company I've ever worked for (as either a perm or a contractor) who did this ended up with such a botched mess on their hands that they ended up paying triple to get U.S. contractors in to fix the disaster.
If I was running an advertisement on education I'd show all the silicon valley millionaires that came here, with an education in Pakistan or India that cost a lot less than in LA. Then, I'd ask out of work high school grads what is the difference in the education in india and in LA? The retail republican
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