What Do We Owe the State?

lewrockwell.com ^ | January 23, 2002 | by Joseph Sobran

[tberry]

" the state ultimately rests on its power to kill (or otherwise harm) those who disobey it. But this is a threat, not a duty. If I demand your money at gunpoint, you will obey, but the gun doesn’t create an obligation, merely a menace."

[Asclepius]

One might as well speak of "self-coercion" or "self-slavery."

Joey seems to have discovered Marxist ideology theory, the notion of how we tend to internalize our own oppression, how we are conditioned to oppose our own interests etc. This sounds a lot like Gramsci or Lucacs or Debord Lite.

Oh, well. Just a thought.

[from occupied ga]

What Do We Owe the State?

Resistance

[SteamshipTime]

Thanks for the bump. That last paragraph is classic. Another good essay here.

I tell you what, tex. We live in exciting times.

When it's time for the steamship,
there's no stopping the steamship from coming.

[Nitro]

Scout Law (Boy Scouts of America): A Scout is... Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.

[Wallace T.]

If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Sobran is a Catholic (as is Lew Rockwell, on whose Web site this article was initially posted). As such, he should recognize that civil government is a divinely ordained institution ("the powers that be are ordained by God"; Romans 13), to which taxes are owed ("render unto Caesar"; Mark 12:14-17) and to whom obedience is normally due ("submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake"; I Peter 2:13).

Anarchy is not an option for a Christian. However, socialism or statism are also not options. The civil magistrate is bound by the same moral law that binds his subjects. If the Decalogue prohibits theft, those in authority are not permitted to redistribute wealth through welfare payments and old age benefits, or to take land via eminent domain for the sake of transportation needs or environmental purity. If the education of children is entrusted to parents, as Scripture would indicate in several places, the State may not compel mandatory public education nor prevent parents from homeschooling their children.

Application of Biblical principles of morality and guidelines for civil government to both rulers and subjects would place necessary restraints on what Washington said could be a terrible master.

[gnarledmaw]

The major failure in your thesis is that, in this country, we are the "rulers". Do a search on some of those verses you cited and you will see some pretty lengthy discussions on their common misinterpretations.

[junta]

thanks Just started reading the book on recommendations of Mr. Sobran and Mr. Taylor.

[Doctor Doom]

What Do We Owe the State?

The middle finger.

The state is a cure far worse than the disease.

[gnarledmaw]

Your quote only shows what blowhards the Rothbard type faux-intelligensia are. Is he entirely ignorant of the fact that we are a constitutional republic? Its an important distinction. His whining about democracy and the tyranny of the majority was fully addressed when this nation was created. If this quote represents a central thesis in his writing then it only goes to underscore the ignorance in America of what Rights are and what our form of government is.

We are the sovereigns of this nation. When government, the servant, acts outside of its Constitutionally defined realm of authority, whether it oppresses someone or not, it is the servant rebelling against its master and has earned any retribution we see fit. It has no license to kill Jews or anyone else regardless of the percentage of us that theoretically might wish that action to be taken. Anyone who does not understand that at the core of this nation is our individual sovereignty and Rights has already silently and likely unknowingly acted to overthrow our rightful form of government and gets whatever they historically deserve.

It is because we have lost this proper focus that our nation is in the straights that its in.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

The entire governing bureaucracy of the United States derives its power from the unrelenting culture of self-hatred practiced to a greater or lesser degree by most Americans.

The educational, medical and judical bureacracies as well as the entertainment corpocracies all are dedicated to eradication of what, in another age. would have been called "sin".

The passivity of our population in the face of State power--unthinkable only one generation ago--is the result of this self-hatred which eats away at any idea of the splendour of man's nature. "...What a peice of work is man...." could only be written as a savage, bitter and ironic comment today--probably by a government-funded feminist "performance artist".

Sometimes the self-hatred becomes unbearable and, in the case of Kliebold and Harris is turned outwards. I don't think we realize how important these school shootings are in terms of the health of the nation. Revolutions were never fought as they are portrayed in the movies--giant set pieces with mass action on a particular day. Rather, they appeared to be small, seemingly unorganized street fights. "Normal" life goes on outside the skirmishes.

We are "free" and we have the largest prison population in the history of mankind. This doesn't seem to concern too many people around here. But I think it is part of an ongoing revolution--a rejection of State imposed self-hate through lawlessness. Opting out of the various eternal wars our government has declared--against illiteracy, drugs, domestic violence, poverty, now "terrorism", puts one one beyond the pale now that we are either with us or with the terorists.

How long before 51% are on the side of the devil? Perhaps we've reached that point already. Perhaps highly classified internal documentation that the government has compiled in its years of remorseless caluclating, measuring and statistics-gathering, is telling them something. Something that causes them "terror". Maybe that's why the word "terrorist" is so elastic--so all emcompassing now.

And, in terms of the Attacks of Sepember 11th--those attacks would not have occured without our overwhelming pre-existing self-loathing. Our culture was literally the air-traffic controller which guided Mo Atta and the boyz into the side of the Trade Center.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

"...It's frustrating to think you're sovereign, yet live in a cage, isn't it?..."

Worth repeating.....