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Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God
Scientific American ^ | 1/7/02 | Michael Shermer

Posted on 01/07/2002 8:19:37 AM PST by dead

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To: Don Myers
It's a trick question (tautology), as I see it, based on the definition of the word "sufficiently."

The author could say that any ETI who can't convince you he's God is not sufficiently advanced, so the original assertion must be true (can't be false).

81 posted on 01/07/2002 11:47:48 AM PST by Joe Slobonavich
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To: onedoug
"The electron orbital position of a constituent proton is precluded by information on its momentum."

Exactly my point-- your language, your math, and your science aren't up to a true definition of natural phenomenon. If they were you would understand that a blade of grass is the antithesis of unstable.

I know this is true because I have never seen nor read of an orbital electron breakdown in grass. Therefore, its not the grass that is unstable but the scientific model attemping to define it.

82 posted on 01/07/2002 11:53:52 AM PST by Pietro
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To: Joe Slobonavich
I had logic in college. I drove my logic teacher a little of the deep end. Well....I and the other students did. One day, she looked at us and quietly told us to just get up and walk out. She told us not to say anything, just leave. The next semester, she started teaching at a different college.

Anyway, trick questions are only tricky for those who think in certain ways. There are different ways of perceiving the universe. And my perception is, ET is just another created being.

83 posted on 01/07/2002 11:54:50 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: dhuffman@awod.com
Your catch phrase is wearing very thin, especially because you have nothing of substance to offer to this discussion, or any discussion you've jumped into save insult and innuendo. Which is why I din't answer your last post on the other thread--what's the point?

Here's your chance though Mr Hoffman--is math invented or discovered, and why?

84 posted on 01/07/2002 12:02:37 PM PST by Pietro
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To: semper_libertas
Okay. So "all human beings have a flawed view of God" ergo this particular human being's view of God is no more flawed than anyone else's.

The sky is blue.

85 posted on 01/07/2002 12:14:12 PM PST by Abn1508
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To: Pietro
True?
88 posted on 01/07/2002 12:26:33 PM PST by onedoug
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To: Pietro
Because the logic of mathematics exists apart from man, I will say 'invented.'

One of your unstated premises is revealed in your use of the singular math, contrasted with maths. There are many mathematics related only by their common root in logic. For example, the math (probably better calculus) of RAMANUJAN. As I recall he, an untutored Hindu, invented a complete calculus of partitioning. Its utility was not recognized until computer technology was quite mature.

Another 'for instance' is statistics. Here lies the frustration that makes me say...

The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

My +4 sd whatever you want to call it excludes me from the vast conspiracy of ignorance. I am solely responsible for my errors.

89 posted on 01/07/2002 12:30:52 PM PST by dhuffman@awod.com
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To: eleni121
Heinlein far surpassed Clarke as far as classic sci fi is concerned

Maybe early on, but later ... yuck!

Heinlein's later novels demonstrated that: he had an obsession with breakfast; was rather intrigued with the idea of incest (e.g., Number of the Beast; that he had extreme difficulties putting together a rational plot line (e.g., Friday).

Personally, I think he was a pathetic person writing pathetic books. Most of his characters were so supremely superhuman that the can only reflect a despair over his own physical disabilities.

90 posted on 01/07/2002 12:31:12 PM PST by r9etb
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To: dhuffman@awod.com
That the logic of mathematics exists apart from man is the topic of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.

I hope that the thought I gave to my response to The Rock isn't spilled on sterile ground.

The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

92 posted on 01/07/2002 12:36:53 PM PST by dhuffman@awod.com
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To: onedoug
One additional point; I don't mean to belittle science or math or scientists and engineers. I have a great deal of respect for the work they do (I've worked w/ numerous professionals in both fields).
93 posted on 01/07/2002 12:39:00 PM PST by Pietro
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To: dead
This discussion brings to mind one of my favorite quotes.

"No discovery made by science can deny the existence of God." Salvador Dali

Although it was always Dali's paintings I liked best about him I was impressed by the fact that he drew the double helix of DNA a few years before science discovered it.

94 posted on 01/07/2002 12:41:47 PM PST by TigersEye
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To: onedoug
Ohhh nooo! not Descarte. You're right nothing is true, nothing is knowable, etc. etc....

However, a blade of grass is not unstable.

96 posted on 01/07/2002 12:47:43 PM PST by Pietro
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To: Abn1508
Imagine a being that could replicate every miracle in the Book.

I was thinking about that the other night-- walking on water, raising the dead, the resurrection...

Why didn't he just write "Jesus was here", in bold type, across the face of the moon? I think that would of done it.

If you're going to do miracles, go for something big and indisputable I say.

97 posted on 01/07/2002 12:49:55 PM PST by mindprism.com
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To: Abn1508
The sky is blue.

Yes, it is. But tell me, what does blue look like?

98 posted on 01/07/2002 12:50:30 PM PST by TigersEye
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To: dhuffman@awod.com
I have no unstated premise. I don't speak in code or secret symbologies, BTW, what in the hell is "+4 sd".

For what it's worth I think you're the #1 conehead in that conspiracy you're so fond of.

99 posted on 01/07/2002 12:52:24 PM PST by Pietro
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To: OWK
But can William Shatner distinguish Kirk from God?

Church of Shatnerology


100 posted on 01/07/2002 12:52:35 PM PST by Britton J Wingfield
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