Posted on 01/05/2002 11:55:52 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
To me, the church has passed on the purity of the gospel as far as most truths are concerned, but you have to look past many practices and traditions that are really unnecessary and obscure the principle gospel message.
The bigger tragedy to my way of thinking is that both Martin Luther and the Catholic church followed courses which led to and aided and abetted the Holocaust.
I write in my own attempt to come to grips with my own conscience about where Christianity, in general, got intertwined with politics and went off course. I just can't get it right yet. I wish I didn't feel this way about the church.
Jerry, and yet another Roman Catholic makes a personal attack.
No where in the article is Jesus slandered!
You assume that I mean the article. I meant instead a certain post, which is the sole reason that I flagged my fellow Protestants. I believe that you also responded to this post [indirectly] and even more, you defended the idea that Jesus could possibly return as a San-Fran homosexual. I may be wrong and if so, I do apologize, but I do have copies of the thread.
Oh, BTW, my fellow Calvinist will testify to my status as not only a saint, but also a priest; called out of darkness by God to cry out against every false way and spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
It was, along with your response, the most Prideful and Arrogant statement I believe I have ever seen on FR! You need to hang your head in shame at your unsupported boastfulness!
Review your statements...then look-up in the Bible where Jesus the Christ gives you permission to inflate your own sense of purpose and justifies your claim by the opinion of mere men! Just shameful!
You assume that I mean the article. I meant instead a certain post, which is the sole reason that I flagged my fellow Protestants.
Woody, the posts should be about the article. We should not be addressing the subsequent "Posts" as if they stand on their own as a "thread"(and I am just as guilty o this as everyone else).
I believe that you also responded to this post [indirectly] and even more, you defended the idea that Jesus could possibly return as a San-Fran homosexual. I may be wrong and if so, I do apologize, but I do have copies of the thread.
I'll give that one! My sin was that I did not condemn it for all to see. I don't believe I made any comments about it at all (could be wrong) but again, I let it slide. Naturally, I believe it was most unfortunate that anyone in their zeal to defend the Lord, completely misrepresents His essential purity.
This issue is deadly serious. If you love God, you will not mock this thread, nor cry to the moderators to have it pulled.
The biggest challenge to political conservatism is championing the Culture of Life in a society and political climate in large part obsessed with the Culture of Death. If we lose the fight for the Culture of Life, the Republic is lost. Any other political debate is moot.
To understand the roots of the acceptance of many facets of the Culture of Death, one must grasp recent historical developments in Christianity. In 1930 mainstream "Bible only" protestantism fell away from the constant teaching of Christianity regarding contraception. Christianity always taught contraception was intrinsically evil. (This was ALL Christians, for ALL time, not just Catholics. The point isn't even debatable. Read the detailed history on the lower right hand column of my profile page for further information.)
This change in teaching on contraception is the very root cause of the eventual legalization of abortion.
Abortion follows the acceptance of contraceptive mentality as night follows day. In Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the US Supreme Court decision that confirmed Roe v. Wade [U.S. decision to permit abortions] stated "in some critical respects, abortion is of the same character as the decision to use contraception... for two decades of economic and social developments, people have organized intimate relationships and made choices that define their views of themselves and their places in society, in reliance on the availability of abortion in the event that contraception should fail."
As Professor Janet Smith points out, "The Supreme Court decision has made completely unnecessary, any efforts to "expose" what is really behind the attachment of the modern age to abortion. As the Supreme Court candidly states, we need abortion so that we can continue our contraceptive lifestyles."
Furthermore, because mainstream protestantism and "Bible Christianity" in general condones non-procreative contraceptive sex, they have no moral authority upon which to preach against non-procreative homosexual sex, as homosexual "Christian" theologians are pointing out even today, to the consternation of conservative protestant scholars.
Thus the homosexual agenda juggernaut is also directly a result of the failure of "Bible Christianity" on the birth control issue, as well as the reluctance of the Catholic hierarchy and priesthood to promote Humanae Vitae and the Church's true teachings on sexuality in general.
And if you can kill the innocent baby in the womb, why not granny in the nursing home? Euthanasia too is becoming widespread, as a result of the acceptance of abortion, which came from this change in moral teachings regarding, and acceptance of, the contraceptive mentality among Christian churches.
The widespread acceptance in American culture of the culture of death --abortion, contraception, homosexuality, euthanasia-- lies squarely on the backs of those who caved in on these life issues several decades ago.
They caved in based on private interpretation of scripture and rejection of the teaching authority Jesus willed for His Church.
Until Christianity turns back from this apostacy, respect for human life from conception til natural death, the hallmark of any true political conservatism, will continue to erode.
Given what I see to be the roots of abortion/ the homosexual agenda, can anybody wonder why I continue to try to bring good Christian folk home to Rome?
Disagree with my interpretation of scripture. Frown upon posting such as this to a conservative news forum.
But do not attempt to squash an idea that is bigger than either you or me.
Babies die from legalized abortion in this country every 15 seconds.
Because the culture, the protestant culture, caved on the contraception issue 70 years ago.
This debate is deadly serious, it has grave political ramifications, and lives hang in the balance of its outcome.
I may be nutz. I may be the only one on this forum to advance what seems such a bizarre concept.
But there must be a root cause of the Culture of Death (besides the obvious, Original Sin.) Please do not attempt to stifle debate on these root causes, a debate that very well may point the way to a solution to the abortion crisis in our country.
Many of us Catholics have been protestants, and understand protestantism quite well.
The author of this piece that started the thread grew up an Evangelical Protestant, and converted to Catholicism only several years ago. He understands protestantism from the inside out, probably much better than most protestants, but you dismiss his article out of hand, for it fails to support your preconceived notions.
Many of us Catholics have been protestants, and understand protestantism quite well.
The author of this piece that started the thread grew up an Evangelical Protestant, and converted to Catholicism only several years ago. He understands protestantism from the inside out, probably much better than most protestants, but you dismiss his article out of hand, for it fails to support your preconceived notions.
Many of us Catholics have been protestants, and understand protestantism quite well.
The author of this piece that started the thread grew up an Evangelical Protestant, and converted to Catholicism only several years ago. He understands protestantism from the inside out, probably much better than most protestants, but you dismiss his article out of hand, for it fails to support your preconceived notions.
Oh, well, another duplicate post...
Oh, well, another duplicate post...
I hate it when it does this
Honest, heartfelt thoughts, aliska. Thank you for sharing them.
I have thought about the same thing. But eventually it all comes back to Original Sin, and the lust for power and loss of control over our impulses. We all sin. It is the mystery of iniquity. It is the mystery of why an All Powerful creator would be so crazy as to give us such a powerful thing as Free Will.
Christians get involved in seeking power because of Free will and Original sin.
It is a simple concept. But that does not make it easy. Hang in there.
There are probably many good, kind, simple things many, many catholics did in the past which never got recorded. Even some of the elite were occasionally capable of transcending that lust for power. I do try to remember that but sometimes to see only one side of the picture. I need to turn the tapestry over and look at the hidden threads on the back.
First of all, Catholicism is not necessarily the solution to the abortion mess. The evangelicals I know are opposed to abortion and post-conception "contraception," too.
In the next place, Jerry was not trying to stifle debate on any topic. He was just pointing out that Roman Catholics do tend to be prejudiced against evangelicals. And he was pointing out that the Admin Moderators sometimes stifle the Protestants in favor of abusive Catholics. (I'll bet this has to do with the fact that Protestants don't push the abuse button as much anyway.)
In the next place, the original article was not really a discussion of abortion anyway. So, although I understand your opinion that RCism is the great hope of our anti-abortion movement, I honestly think that it is beside the point.
Isn't it? Given my thesis, (one no one has tried to debate, whether because folks think I'm nutz, the thesis has no merit, or know it their hearts it is true) the culture of death is holding sway because we have lost 1930 years of traditional Judeo-Christian moral teachings on contraception (all contraception, not just abortifacient contraception).
To discuss the perceived errors of protestantism is also to discuss the perceived fruits of those errors. Acceptance of contraception is one of them. Abortion is the natural result.
The author of this piece that started the thread grew up an Evangelical Protestant, and converted to Catholicism only several years ago. He understands protestantism from the inside out, probably much better than most protestants, but you dismiss his article out of hand, for it fails to support your preconceived notions.
The fact that some are RCs are former Protestants proves nothing. A lot of Protestants are going to burn in hell forever even if they stay in Protestantism.
My point in saying that is to warn you that people are by nature religious fools. And I say again that the former Protestants who are now in Catholicism never understood Protestantism in the first place.
But I understand it because I can read the Bible and understand the interpretive problem which is involved in the doctrine of justification. And I can see its correct solution. And I can see the spiritual consequences of blunders in this matter.
And I notice that John Calvin's explanation of justification was the correct one. Sadly, Rome has never faced that. It would be too embarrassing for Rome to admit that in the necessarily full way of true repentance. (The article at the top of the thread only pretends to make concessions to the Reformers. The author and the fellow he cited are just too proud of Rome to face the fact that Rome's doctrine is Scripturally bankrupt.)
You really ought to go back and re-read my earlier post, including the link I gave to my comments on another thread. You ought to address what I said. Unlike the article leading off this thread, it is clear and completely Scriptural. I demonstrated that I am not following "preconceived notions" but putting the Apostles Paul and James together in the only way that makes any sense from the Scriptures. The Epistle of James is smashing antinomianism--whether "Protestant" or "Catholic"--but Romans 3:28 is explicitly smashing your RC doctrine of "justification by faith-plus-works."
This is not all that difficult, friend doctor. You are probably as bright as I am, maybe more so. But I am not so foolish as to expect you to yield to me even if I am inarguably right about this doctrine. The reason why I say that is your screen name. Your very screen name screams out the warning that you have no ability to be objective.
Pride is a monstrous sin even when you are right. It is utterly murderous when you happen to be wrong. (There will be self-righteous, smug pro-lifers in hell, of course. Plenty of them. They are going to be very surprised on Judgment Day.)
P.S. to grumpster-dumpster: According to Scripture, ALL true Christians are SAINTS. You must pardon me for not even acknowledging, under the circumstances of that fact, the Romanist "definition" of a saint. Although you may not be a saint, CCWoody and I are.
It's not that difficult to grasp. You just have to go back to the Bible (which involves throwing out the doctrines of men, including Popes).
You are incredibly misinformed...
Its a question of how you define it. Anything the Irish do is terrorism. What the English did isn't because they are ``the government.''
I'm afraid that you don't know much about the history of Christianity.
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