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While I am not a libertarian or a conservative anarchist, I can see what is happening in our country today and as the article said, "Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power over people is to assure the people that they are ruling themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully submissive slaves.
1 posted on 01/04/2002 5:34:10 AM PST by tberry
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To: tberry
Excellent post.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free." -- Johann Goethe


2 posted on 01/04/2002 5:41:53 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: tberry
That's why we were founded as a Constitutional Republic. The Constitution was designed to place limits on our "democracy"(mob rule). Sadly, our public servants will no longer accept limits on their powers.
3 posted on 01/04/2002 5:47:38 AM PST by steve50
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To: tberry
Our government slipped out of the reins of limited power completely when the first shots were fired on Fort Sumter.
5 posted on 01/04/2002 5:59:52 AM PST by TADSLOS
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To: TwoBit; WhowasGustavusFox; winin2000; aomagrat; sheltonmac; billbears; bluecollarman; JMJ333...
Ping!
6 posted on 01/04/2002 6:08:24 AM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: tberry
do a search Guthrum posted this yesterday, still correct and I will buy the book
7 posted on 01/04/2002 6:15:14 AM PST by junta
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To: tberry
Great post!
9 posted on 01/04/2002 6:18:42 AM PST by IM2Phat4U
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To: tberry
Who said "Democracy will work only until the people discover that they can vote themselves welfare checks." or something like that.
10 posted on 01/04/2002 6:20:00 AM PST by aomagrat
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To: tberry
We need one more constitutional amendment:

"No one shall vote in an election who has not paid income tax or property tax within the four preceding years"

11 posted on 01/04/2002 6:24:49 AM PST by Magician
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To: tberry
bttt. The information on this thread is too important to be allowed to drop off latest posts.
15 posted on 01/04/2002 7:03:07 AM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: tberry
I came to many of the same conclusions many years ago, and that's when I stopped supporting most Republican candidates. I realize they think they have the only practical approach, which is to merely throttle the growth of government down a bit. But such efforts will never work in the long run.

I'm not worried about myself - I'm worried about my children and grandchildren. That's why I support candidates (mostly liberatarian, but some Republicans) that call for radical change. If they're not talking about cutting the size of government by a third or a half at least, removing whole classes of taxes, and eliminating huge swaths of bureaucracy, they their election will be pointless.

I had hope for the "Contract with America". That was apparently the last gasp of true limited government fervor among mainstream Republicans, and what did it do? Nothing of consequence. Now we have Bush, who has performed admirably in foreign policy, but is "same old, same old" on the domestic front.

Let's put things in proportion. The attacks of Sept 11 killed around 4000. That is pretty horrific. But Stalin killed over 10,000,000 and Mao killed more than that. That's the power of a totalitarian society. No matter how well we do against foreign enemies, if we get effectively enslaved by our own government, it will most likely last for many generations, and result in far more deaths than any terrorist actions every could.

16 posted on 01/04/2002 7:03:49 AM PST by Joe Bonforte
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To: tberry
'But today Americans have learned to view the victory of the Union over the states, which meant an enormous increase in the centralization of power, as a triumph of "democracy."'

Not all of us. Some Americans still believe that the powers of the federal monolith are limited, it's convincing the sheeple that's holding us up. Divest the federal government of all it's unconstitutional entitlement programs, and remove the federal chokehold from our state institutions and things would be as the founders intended - state sovereignity with national protections.

17 posted on 01/04/2002 7:12:08 AM PST by 4CJ
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To: tberry
Our government has taken on a life of its own; it's so big that there are probably few capable of comprehending (myself included) how much control and influence it has in the lives of its citizens. We've all become accustomed to certain things being done by a centralized government, to the point where just about no government program can ever be killed.

Whenever a copy of the federal budget gets printed up, the thing takes several volumes (is my understanding). How many people are employed by the federal government? How many people would be thrown out of "work" if any serious attempt was made to cut the size of the government? How many people are there who have a financial interest in constantly expanding the size of government?

A national discussion needs to take place wherein we come to agreement as to just what it is that the federal government should do and what it should not do, but I can't see it ever happening. A theoretical discussion about the proper function of government can take place before it's established, but once you get to a point where the money clouds everbody's judgment, it's all over. Personally, I can't imagine anyone deciding to go into politics in the hopes of turning things around, because the government is so big that the ability of one person to make any kind of meaningful change is practically nil. The only reason I can see for anyone to go into politics these days is to feed at the trough and to take advantage of the "bennies".

I just don't see much hope for ever being able to seriously redefine the proper bounds of government until economic factors (or whatever) cause it all to fall apart. I guess you can just put me down as a pessimist in this thing.

19 posted on 01/04/2002 8:04:54 AM PST by CubicleGuy
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To: tberry
Thanks for the good post.

Fredrick Bostiat in "The Law" talked about 'A' and 'B' ganging up on 'C' and called it "legal plunder".

What scares me is this may be the last generation to read an article like this and understand the ramifications to the health and well being of civilization. The next generation is only looking for a good time and to be entertained in the next 30 minutes.

21 posted on 01/04/2002 8:09:36 AM PST by CWRWinger
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To: tberry
Democracy is the cheapest form of oppression.
23 posted on 01/04/2002 8:29:58 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: tberry
bump

...wish I could bookmark... damn new format...

40 posted on 01/04/2002 9:45:28 AM PST by Tauzero
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To: nicollo
You might enjoy this thread. I don't have time to write, but I have time to read your remarks, if you make some.
52 posted on 01/04/2002 10:15:13 AM PST by Huck
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To: tberry
Bump
72 posted on 01/04/2002 11:56:22 AM PST by scoopscandal
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To: tberry; huck; Aurelius; Crab Tree
You know what, here we are debating this and that about our democracy and taxation, etc., over an article that -- does it really? -- claims a monarchy would better care for the people. Did I read it right?

By comparison with the rule of our alleged equals, most kings displayed remarkably little ambition for power. And compared with modern war, the wars of kings were mere scuffles.
Wow. That's what he wrote. I guess we've all just been dragged into Sobran's abyss of historical regret and self-loathing.

It's stupid. Just plain stupid.

It also ignores a crucial element to the American experience which is untouched in these anti-statist threads: the meaning of equality. There will be now and then an admission here that one of the core American principles is that "all men are created equal." And this will be occasionally juxtaposed against outcome-based politics, but truly, is that the only context for this most stunning, unique, and historically distinct proposition that all men are created equal?

100 posted on 01/04/2002 8:23:11 PM PST by nicollo
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To: tberry
Great post!....BTTT!
106 posted on 01/05/2002 2:52:52 AM PST by SemperFidelis
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To: tberry; Goetz_von_Berlichingen; Cornelis; Traditionalist; Okiegolddust; tex-oma
People can in theory form a government of universal consent, but we haven't seen one yet. In the meanwhile, we've seen limited governments and they weren't democratic. Finally somebody said it.

It is true that a well-written constitution can slow down the growth of government and decay of freedom, but it can't stop it let alone reverse it. As long as a society has elected leaders, they -- each single one of them -- have an organic interest in selling government power to the constituents. Thus, they have an organic interest in seeing to it that the total amount of power that the government possesses grow.

In contrast to that, an unelected leader is ensured of his position as long as he makes a passably good job of it. Moreover, if overall power increases, the unelected official's share of power will usually decrease. For example, kings who created too much of a government apparatus in the past were forced to appoint ministers who diluted their power.

One can hope that, armed with the lessons from monarchies of the past, the failures of democracy, and the failed attempts to build a stable constitutional republic, the Western Civilization will return to the Medieval ideals of small principalities with hereditary rule. May be not in the 21st century, but very likely in the 22nd.

112 posted on 01/05/2002 8:55:01 AM PST by annalex
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