Just for the record...
Catholicism for Beginners:Theology and Revelation
Not necessarily the best, but they'll have to do for now...
It does get complicated sometimes. God Bless!
Posted on 01/02/2002 1:15:38 PM PST by Theresa
Acts 4:10-12 (NIV), "then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is '"the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone."' Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (KJV)
Of your last 50 posts, more than 40 of them have been attacking Christians.
What is your relationship with "sirgawain"?
Are you entered here under two names, or are you just one of the members of the "Hit Squad"?
Ashland, Missouri
Father Feeney was an American priest who, back in the 1940s, taught that if a person was not a Roman Catholic, they were condemned to hell. This has never been the accepted teaching of Catholicism, and Father Feeney was reprimanded by the Vatican for his mistaken understanding.
One might be tempted to respond apparently not because the early Christians had to argue amongst themselves and with the Arian and Gnostic heretics about what the Bible meant and even which texts should be included in the final version (not decided until a church council)with various reformulated statements of Christian beliefs in the "Creed" and the pronouncements of church councils.
Your statement above, from the prior post, is a "theological" proposition itself subject to reflective analysis. In analytical form: Divine Revelation is of such a nature that the "theologizing" which carries official doctrinal truth "was completed for all by the authors of the Bible under the inspiration of God." By "inspired" we mean that God, acting through the Holy Spirit, illumined the minds of the Gospel writers. The conceptual categories of your theological claim are - Divine Revelation, the Holy Spirit, Sacred Scripture, and Divine Inspiration. The reference to "the Bible" assumes some accepted form of canonical texts of sacred scripture arrived at in church council through deliberation with "the Church" understood as also under the direction of the Holy Spirit. Welcome to the Catholic Church, my friend!
LOL, I told my husband back a few post with you that this is what you would come back with, that is why in that one post I said "not that we don't think and study." We need to pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance, read His word, and trust that the HS will reveal what we need to know. Some things may be unclear, but it is funny how the next time you will get it.
1 Cor. 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of th world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Becky
Disagree with the CC if you want, but don't tell lies about it.
:o)
Anyway...There is a slightly complicated side to theological and scriptural matters. It's great to see you using all of those concepts and doctrines from the early Catholic (i.e., universal) Church - Divine Revelation, the action of the Holy Spirit in evangelization, divine purpose, inspiration, a canonical conception of the texts of sacred scripture, and St. Jerome's chapters and verses format. You seem to believe most of what he(and they) believed. :)
God Bless!
2 Tim. 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Becky
I have in the last few months on another thread learned what (supposedly) the catholic church (supposedly) official teachings are. Alot of it comes from scripture which gives the illusion that, yes, they are "Christian," and I do agree with all that. But sometimes such as when discussing salvation they claim that it comes from grace through Jesus Christ only, which is correct, but they fail to add that the RCC teaches that grace comes from participation in the sacraments which is NOT scriptural. I want no part of the catholic church.
Becky
OK. So you deny making a claim about the nature of Divine Revelation in propositional discourse, a clear theological proposition, in the above post which presupposes the early Christian "Catholic" concept and reality of a set of canonically approved texts notarized as the official "Bible" by a church council, understood as also acting under the Holy Spirit?
You need to read some basic encyclopedia articles on Christian Church history. Some basic facts on the Bible and Divine Revelation, etc. That's about as much imput as I am going to be able to offer today. Busy schedule.
God Bless!
Cuba Libre
SD
I realize that - however doctrinal issues exist just like Calvinism, & Arminianism. To deny that is to open your eyes within your bowels.
How does celebrating Mass in Latin de-rich the poor? For that matter how does a Baptist service in English enrich the poor?
Christ took Salvation from the Synagogue and gave it to the poor. A Latin Mass will be only understood by those intelligent enough to comprehend latin, something you wont find among the demographics of todays inner city. Is it trying to reach people and spread the Word or is it merely spooning Christ out in a controlled manner to those so educated? As for Baptist /English services, it takes the predominant language of the region and makes it accessible to anyone who comes in the door, not just the pew filler Sunday Christian / Holiday types.
So, it is the chance of heretical teaching that bothers you? You do realize that priests do not ad lib during the Mass?
Oh please child - Ive got the whole liturgical thing down - & yes Ive heard plenty of ad-libs (Cath and Pro)
Do you also realize that the Mass is an offering to God, a time to worship? Those attending Mass are there to worship God, not necessarily to sit and listen to a preacher.
Im glad the worship works for you. Personally though, the liturgical constancy is boring, predictable and Spirit lacking. You are entitled though.
You act as if those attending Latin Mass have no idea of what is being said and sung. This is insulting. First of all, educated Catholics understand what the parts of the Mass are all about. Secondly, the Missal contains a side-by-side translation into English, so even the newecomer can follow along.
I disagree, approach a large cross section of Catholic youth and I will all but guarantee they are ignorant of Latin until they reach the age of 15 or so.
What is it that makes you believe that my singing "O come let us adore Him" is good but singing "Venite Adoremus" is bad? Ive got no problem with singing in Latin.
Then let it sink in. Your biggest objection to a Latin Mass is that heretical teaching may seep in, in a language you don't understand. Well, you just admitted that you understand that teaching is done in the vernacular. This includes the Scripture readings and the sermon during Mass, as well as outside instruction given to children and converts.
No thats not my biggest objection - My biggest objection (like it matters a hoot in hell) is that it is not ministering to the poor effectively. Bob Bluecollar showing up for the first time is not going to get a thing out of it, and if he gets nothing from it, how can he expected to go forth and spread the gospel effectively. Though now that ive said that I realize just how few Catholics spread the gospel at all - so I guess he'd fit in.
Define "infallible."
Infallible = Jesus/God/Holy Spirit
Contrast that with "impeccible."
Impeccible = Pope John Paul, Billy Graham
We do not teach that Popes are without sin. This is a common misconception and I would think you would know better.
Ya huh - certainly wasnt that way in our Diocese 30 years ago.
I asked you to define "co-redeemer." You have failed. Shall I rail about some teaching of yours without even having the faintest idea of how to define it? Wouldn't that make me ignorant?
co-redeemer = someone elevated to the level of Christ - spare me your slavish need for these simple definitions.
It all comes down to this again - the fact you ignore the doctrinal lapses in Catholicism while holding it up as pure and unadulterated. Its inhabited by men - fallible men
And youve done just what to herd us in ? - pull the sticks from your eye
well put sister
Just for the record...
Catholicism for Beginners:Theology and Revelation
Not necessarily the best, but they'll have to do for now...
It does get complicated sometimes. God Bless!
How charmingly Christian
Funny how everything I experienced as a young man 30 years ago is now completely opposite of the way it is now - The Pope is no longer infallible, Latin Masses no longer exist (yeah right) and Mary isnt a co-redeemer.(sarcasm)
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