Prophet of Terror and the Religion of Peace--Part III

Perhaps. otoh, I need to check the Koran for myself and see if those actual quotes are there. I am aware of what apears to be similar violence in the olde testament perpetrated by Israel. However, there was a stark difference. They were often told to take no plunder whatsoever and they were severely punished by God when someone attempted to keep some silver.

That keeps one from being able to blame them from wiping out entire "races" just for plunder (other than the land, of course, which is what God promised them).

The fact that these types of things are said against Christianity or Judeaism, falsly, doesn't, on its own anyway, mean they are untrue in this case as well.

More study is needed. In the meantime, I can easily see if the quotes from the Koran are really there. If they are, the credibility of these threads increases dramatically, since these "quotes" stand alone as truly barbaric, even removed from the remaining "historical data" in these threads if they are indeed accurate.

>>"And We have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents: in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years twain was his weaning: (hear the command), "Show gratitude to Me and to thy parents: to Me is (thy final) Goal. (Qur'an 031.014)"<<

What tripe. It's like reading things in the book of mormon. Some guy says some stuff and tries to make it sound important, and the non-investigatory types just lap it up as gospel.

I as the same question that I ask myself about my spiritual beliefs: "Who told you that and why did you believe him?"

With subjects with more significance than "what's the best restaurant in town" the answer better be more than "it seems to make sense."

Anybody who has graduated from high school with more than a "C" average could invent that silly little phrase you pulled from that ancient fiction.

I don't mean to be disrespectful of you, but rather that ludicrous book of "wisdom" upon which Islam is based.

Sheesh, doesn't anybody think for themselves anymore. Oh I forgot, they'll kill you if you do.

>>Ridiculing each other's religions is foolish. Anyone graduating from high school with a C average should know that.<<

I disagree. I am merely calling a spade a spade. Just because someone spouts ridiculous trash as "from God" doesn't mean I have to automatically treat it with respect. It is not very PC or tolerant, but then, the most religiously intolerant man who ever lived was Jesus the Christ (I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father but through Me - Jesus).

Garbage is to be treated as garbage, truth, as truth. Objective study can usually reveal which is which. And no, I don't believe in moral relativism. There really IS an absolute right and an absolute wrong.

I repeat the question I asked in my last post. The same question I ask myself about my faith: "Who told you that and why did you believe him?" If the answer is, "because it makes sense," that may be a reason to buy a Ford over a Chevy, but it is no reason to "pick a god." I might challenge you, if you already have a background knowledge of the bible, to read a book by C.S. Lewis called Mere Christianity. It may help you to see the life of Christ and the whole reason for his life from different perspective than before. It's a very short read. And, if there is something beyond the Koran that you think would give me a different perspective on the writings of Mohammad, I will give it a shot as well.

I must admit that, up until now, most of my reading of non-Christian spirital literature has been on "Christian" cults like mormonism and Jehovas witnesses, and to a lesser degree, Hinduism and Buddhism (which is more a philosophy than a religion). Not as much on Islam yet - although even what I have read that claims to support Islam actually condemns it in my eyes.

Please, enlighten me. This is a sincere request.

No, they are not lies, you can find the stories in the hadith:

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab's foster brother, Abu Na'ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, "Where are you going at this time?" Kab replied, "None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na'ila have come." His wife said, "I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka'b said. "They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed." Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, "When Ka'b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head." Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. " have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka'b replied. "I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume." Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka'b "Will you allow me to smell your head?" Ka'b said, "Yes." Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka'b again, "Will you let me (smell your head)?" Ka'b said, "Yes." When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), "Get at him!" So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf." Here for the link

Lies? The hadith describes all these things. From Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 462:

So, on that day, Allah's Apostle got up on the pulpit and complained about 'Abdullah bin Ubai (bin Salul) before his companions, saying, 'O you Muslims! Who will relieve me from that man who has hurt me with his evil statement about my family? By Allah, I know nothing except good about my family and they have blamed a man about whom I know nothing except good and he used never to enter my home except with me.' Sad bin Mu'adh the brother of Banu 'Abd Al-Ashhal got up and said, 'O Allah's Apostle! I will relieve you from him; if he is from the tribe of Al-Aus, then I will chop his head off, and if he is from our brothers, i.e. Al-Khazraj, then order us, and we will fulfill your order.' On that, a man from Al-Khazraj got up. Um Hassan, his cousin, was from his branch tribe, and he was Sad bin Ubada, chief of Al-Khazraj. Before this incident, he was a pious man, but his love for his tribe goaded him into saying to Sad (bin Mu'adh). 'By Allah, you have told a lie; you shall not and cannot kill him. If he belonged to your people, you would not wish him to be killed.'

On that, Usaid bin Hudair who was the cousin of Sad (bin Mu'adh) got up and said to Sad bin 'Ubada, 'By Allah! You are a liar! We will surely kill him, and you are a hypocrite arguing on the behalf of hypocrites.' On this, the two tribes of Al-Aus and Al Khazraj got so much excited that they were about to fight while Allah's Apostle was standing on the pulpit. Allah's Apostle kept on quietening them till they became silent and so did he. All that day I kept on weeping with my tears never ceasing, and I could never sleep.

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