Posted on 12/22/2001 8:31:03 PM PST by jackbob
absolute bump!
Now, if I didn't know any better, I'd say you're the fear monger...
Granted, there'd be some confusion, mostly coming from cultural issues. But it seems as though you're not arguing, at least here, against libertarian ideas, but rather against the suggestions for implementing them. Even if I concede that the transition to this system would be rough, it still doesn't change the fact that this is the better system, or at least that is a separate thread.
The vast majority of those kids, woud be SO unprepared, that they would NOT be able to keep up
They'd be placed at a level commensurate with their knowledge. They'd eventually be placed and would then advance based on their achievement, unlike the public schools which graduate kids that can't make change for a dollar. A quality product would be generated soon or else the money funding that school would be elsewhere.
I'm more fearful of the idea that the high school graduate that reads at the 5th grade level is the next employee at my cafeteria, refilling my juice dispenser with a strange substance labeled 'caustic compound', a warning he can't understand because there are no pictures. Think I'm overreacting? Why do the keys of the cash registers at McDonalds have colorful pictures of cheeseburgers and apple pies? This is what I call 'chaos' and 'utter disaster'.
Cutting off ALL tax burdens, would not only stop this WAR in its tracks, but would NOT be enough money to pay for private school.
You can't know if it would or would not pay for private schooling. You cannot predict how the market would respond. If the great majority of kids could not afford private schools while public schooling were eliminated, the market would readjust. If governments controlled the supermarkets and their prices I imagine that we'd have fear mongers saying that the public would never be able to afford staple foods like milk if supermarkets were privatized. Then, if they controlled the supermarkets for 100 years, there would be no one left to say, "Bunk - I remember when supermarkets were privatized and we had more, better quality products available for less money....." This is what has happened with our schools. As I understand, by about 1880 or so this system was finally in full effect. That's too long ago for anyone alive to remember and speak of the times before this period.
I just don't buy the fear mongering is what I'm saying. No, it's not a perfect system because such a system doesn't exist. Instead, we're stuck accepting this system that dumbs down the nation because we're told that we'd be a nation of illiterates otherwise. I think history shows otherwise, but was it you that mentioned you had some background on this? Please post this, I'd be interested to hear about it.
There ARE huge consiquences to wishing for immidiancy, which would inevitently lead to a TOTOLITARIAN state
By your spelling and creation of words, I'm guessing you're a graduate of the public schools yourself! I'm kidding. Sorry, the opportunity was just there for me. No harm intended, honest. Just making light of the situation.
How would a change to this system, although chaotic, lead to totalitarianism?
I'm assuming that you're only taking issue with how the change is to be made. If so, how would you suggest to best change over to this system? far worse, than anything you can imagine. People don't like chaos, and they don't take kindly to the unexpected. Incrementalism is THE only way to change things.
Wow......tremendous response. I'm reeling as to now I can reconcile my philosophy to this glaringly apparent fact that you've pointed out.
How much force could an LP government use against communities that resisted orders to shut down their schools?
No force would be necessary. Once the government stops using force against people to force them to pay for the public schools, whether they use them or not, the communities would either operate their schools with funding from customers that they've earned, or else they would themselves shut down, since the government is no longer robbing Peter to pay Paul. Not that Paul is a bad guy, but Peter's property is Peter's property.
I read this as the exact opposite. Doing away with everything the libertarians claim to want / hold dear would mean no limits on the government, no property rights, no rkba, no free speech, etc. IOW - it would be to implement the exact opposite of libertarianism.
One world, one government. Another peek inside the Libertarian mindset.
How much force could an LP government use against communities that resisted orders to shut down their schools?
Could you invade their city halls? Burn their tax assessor offices? Padlock their school doors?
With very few exceptions, FR's Libertarians are rather young, unmarried, don't have children, and all speak off the same page.
Their understanding of the institutions that they would put to the torch is virtually nil.
How much force could an LP government use against communities that resisted orders to shut down their schools?
Could you invade their city halls? Burn their tax assessor offices? Padlock their school doors?
Nope, I went to a highly thought of, acredidated PRIVATE, boarding school, a state university for undergrad, and a renowned city college system, for muy Master's.
You claim that children, from now noexistant public schools would be placed into the grades, where the would fit. REALLY? Their parents, who think that little Jihnny is brilliant, because his public school techers keep passing him with As, are going to be willing to have him ledt back two or three grades ? In what universe ? The same one, in which functionally illiterate parents should hoe chool theor kids ? THAT ONE ? You'd have a great deal MORE to worry about then, at McDonalds ( and why do you eat THAT garbage, BTW ? ), than you do now !
I have just explained to you, that there is NO room for them in existing private schools ! You condem the way I write, and yet, YOU have a HUGE reading comprehension problem. Public schooled are YOU ? ( tit for tat ! Don't hand it out, if you don't want to get it handed right back at you. )
So, you assume that in a free market , suddenly schools would appear ; as if by magic ? And WHOM would start and teach in these schools ? Why, the very teachers who now teach in public schools , of course. The difference would be, that now, parents would actually have to pay for it all. What you don't understand, is that public schools use not only local taxes, but Fed funds as well, to pay for things. Now, under a Libertarian government, there would be NO Fed and NO local tax monies. Not only that, but NO buildings, no books, no compters, no desks, no science equipment; in short ... NO NOTHING !
Now, during the time it takes to organize schools, fund these schools, and drum up students for these schools, the teachers et al , have lost their jobs. No jobs, no salaries, so no taxes, don't mean a damned thing. No money,and not only are you going to have a vast number of children with time on their hands, their parent / s will have no health insurance, no pension plans, no money, no unemployment benifits, no welfare, and are mad as hell. These people are mostly liberals, so are ALL of their union bosses. Guess who WILL be sued ? THE GOVERNMENT !
Do I aprove if the current state ( actually, for the last 60 plus years!) of the public school education in this country ? Åbsolutely NOT ! Do I know how to change it, and TRUELY improve it ? YOU BET I DO , and it is NOT the way you and Libertaians want to thoughtlessly do it !
I am NOT a " fear monger ". I know history ( especially the history of education ! ), I understand human nature, and yes, I also DO know what is probable; unlike you.
As for the rest of your post, no matter what I type, and no matter how correct I am, you and your ilk will refuse to even consider IF I just might be correct. You will do this, because of WHO am, HOW you see me , and that WITHOUT a shred of proof that YOUR ideas could ever work, you "FEEL" / " KNOW ", without any impericle evidence, that it shall. You refuse to concede, even to yourselves, that there is the slightest possibility, that you just might be wrong. That's known as being delusional !
You haven't even been here for 2 months, yet YOU are THE arbiter of correct sentence structure ( when you can't write at all well yourself ) and THE authority on education? Think again, newbie !
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha
Nature hates a vacuum. Chaos would be the end result of immediate implimenttaion of Libertaian positons. Chaos leads directly to totolitarianism / dictatorship !
Look at Johnny Jihad. His parents allowed him to do anything he wanted to do. There evidently was NO right and wrong in that house. His parents are divorced, his father is a homosexual, he was allowed to investigate and be any religion he wanted to be, and he was NOT supervised at all. Even his education, was left up for hm to choose. So, what did he do ? He fell out of what most would cosider to be " normal ", and ran , as fast as he could, into THE most authoratarian, strick, backward religion / culture that he could find !
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