The Problem

Me

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

9-11 has rightly caused many people to reassess their views. The same people who want a vastly limited government believe we can somehow suddenly locate and transport 8 million illegal aliens and patrol our vast borders and coasts. Some of the same people who support abortion protest any immigration to handle the diminished employee pool resulting from that first generation of aborted babies. Some of the same people who protest any federal intrusion into their personal lives expect that we can still locate and prosecute those who are seriously plotting us harm.

Few current self-proclaimed "freedom lovers" seem to want to address the question of our ethics, the moral foundation required by a free nation. The self-control and discipline that allows us to make wise decisions and not trespass on our neighbors is lessened by all those very human temptations we choose and protect from drugs to porn, to abortion and the dimished respect and understanding of the importance of both family and religion in place of instant gratification and easy answers.

I believe that it's important to allow many voices into this debate, especially now. We can no longer pretend that it's possible to live isolated from the rest of the world. The illusion was effectively shattered on 9-11.

Personally, I think the Quakers have close to the right idea, but we probably wouldn't be allowed to live in an isolated armed communtiy within the US.

[Twodees]

Actually, it was squandered by earlier generations seeking relief from the great depression. We have been remiss in not demanding our form of government back, I will admit.

[Twodees]

I'm too old for the draft by thirty years, though I'm still militia age. As I said, let him call me to service, and he'll be the head of my chain of command. Until he does, he's just another politician to whom I owe nothing. Your worshipful attitude towards politicians calls up the image of a coward who will toady shamelessly to those he sees as his superiors, inventing authority and virtues for them.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

You are also a liar and a jackass for saying the president is commander in chief of the American nation, rather than armed forces.

You see A. J., if you were not a traitor you would know that in a time of war the American people do not distinguish between the nation and it's armed forces. We are now a nation at arms, and you have the choice of being with us or with the enemy.

[Hank Kerchief]

There will be plenty of opportunity to discuss the wisdom of the President's approach, AFTER THE WAR IS OVER.

It is unlikely that the war will ever be over, since its proposed purpose is to rid the world of terrorism, which will never happen. But at some point, I suppose, the war will no longer be useful to the government and might end. By that time, it is unlikely anyone will be discussing anything without the governments permission, and certainly not any of its policies, past or present.

I think we better do our talking now, or we won't be doing any.

Or maybe you just can't beleive it can happen here.

Hank

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Your worshipful attitude towards politicians calls up the image of a coward who will toady shamelessly to those he sees as his superiors, inventing authority and virtues for them.

Please cite any evidence whatsover of:
a worshipful attitude towards politicians
Toadying shamelessly or otherwise
Any Evidence that I consider anyone on earth to be my superior
Any virtues real or invented claimed for anyone other than the American people
Any examples of cowardice.

The plain fact is that you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war.

[spunkets]

Re: The historical Sulla.

Thanks. The historical figure is not one that would protect Freedom.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Try standing with the people of the United States for a change, if only for the novelty.

[colorado tanker]

Hey, man, who are all those people walkin' up Main Street? (spit)

I don't know Jack. (snort) Ain't like it used to be. We were REAL conservatives, not like this riff-raff.

I used ta know everbody in town. Now, I don't even know anybody who knows these newbies. (spit)

It's when they built the railroad. Anybody can ride the dang thang and get here. Not like our day when you really had to know the territory ta git here. (slurp)

Yep, those fellers had it too dang easy, that's why they put on all them silly airs. (snort)

Ah shure miss them good ol' days.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Thanks. The historical figure is not one that would protect Freedom.

True, but Freedom did not exist at his time, and he was trying to restore it, however ineffectually. But he was never a traitor.

[truth_seeker]

Your profile tells of how very young you are. Right now, you are all about ideals, balanced by about zero practical life experience.

You ought to have someone tell you about life in America, during WWII. About blackouts, so Japanese planes and boats wouldn't have it easy, to find the cities on the coast. About the Japanese firing, on the west coast in California and Oregon. About the Japanese sending bombs, in balloons, over America and Canada. About rationing rubber, gasoline, nylon, foodstuffs. People's freedoms were limited, for good reasons.

Let me ask you some questions:

1. If you were drafted next month, what would you do? (Before you criticize so many others, you might reflect on what you would REALLY do, for and about your country.)

2. If later events prove you wrong, will you admit it?

[A.J.Armitage]

You see A. J., if you were not a traitor you would know that in a time of war the American people do not distinguish between the nation and it's armed forces. We are now a nation at arms, and you have the choice of being with us or with the enemy.

If you weren't an ignorant jackass, you'd know that that's BS. The fact is, wild accusations are all you have. You've said that anyone who doesn't want to search American homes one by one should be immediately shot, and that anyone who disagrees is a traitor. Somehow I doubt the real American people, even the sheep, would "stand with" your fictitious idea of the American people. For that matter, I suspect that even though I've called him amoral and said various other unpleasant things about him, the actual President Bush would agree with me a lot more than with you, as would any real American.

You're nothing but a nutcase.

[Hank Kerchief]

...We can no longer pretend that it's possible to live isolated from the rest of the world. The illusion was effectively shattered on 9-11.

Acutally if we stopped supporting most of it with our foreign aid, the rest of the world would be very little threat to us, even the terrorists. (I can explain if you like.)

...but we probably wouldn't be allowed to live in an isolated armed communtiy within the US.

When the time comes to do this, you don't ask permission. The trick is to be armed enough, to be no threat to anyone else (unless threatened) and to have something the rest of the world wants. (Waco is not the example to follow.)

Hank

[A.J.Armitage]

Do you really think the American people actually agree with everything you wrote?

[Libloather]

Are you still 19 years old?

[Leroy S. Mort]

You're nothing but a nutcase.

This seems to be the conclusion of every thread that Corny participates in. Sorry I was too late to join in the fun this time. As comic relief, he's a scream.

[Hank Kerchief]

Is there any excess to which the government may resort during time of "war" that you believe free citizen's have a right to question? I am for the American's people right to exercise free speech and enquirey at all time, and no supposed political situation abrogates those rights.

Someone is against the American people, but its not the one who wishes to protect their right to free speech, it is the one who want's to shut them up.

Hank

[LibKill]

Internet chest thumping.

:)

[A.J.Armitage]

Your profile tells of how very young you are. Right now, you are all about ideals, balanced by about zero practical life experience.

Oh my goodness! You're right! I'm so wrong because I'm 19. I agree with you now. Oh, wait, I'm still 19. Sorry about that, but you're wrong now. What about the old folks who agreed with me (back before I switched sides). Are they right now? If they're right, should I agree with them, or will that make them wrong again? My head hurts.

Maybe you could just address the issues.

You ought to have someone tell you about life in America, during WWII. About blackouts, so Japanese planes and boats wouldn't have it easy, to find the cities on the coast. About the Japanese firing, on the west coast in California and Oregon. About the Japanese sending bombs, in balloons, over America and Canada. About rationing rubber, gasoline, nylon, foodstuffs. People's freedoms were limited, for good reasons.

Would you like all of that stuff again?

1. If you were drafted next month, what would you do?

Drafted for what? We're about to get bin Laden.

2. If later events prove you wrong, will you admit it?

Wrong about what?

[A.J.Armitage]

Did you ever get a point?