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Catsup
World of Ketchup ^ | April 1 1996 | A Crack Team of Highly Trained Federal Government Workers

Posted on 11/24/2001 6:06:52 PM PST by bvw

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(1) This is NOT interstate commerce.
(2) Using your own recipe might be felonious!
(3) Why are we paying for this verbal dysentery?
1 posted on 11/24/2001 6:06:52 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
(3) If the catsup falls below the stand- ard of fill prescribed in paragraphs
2 posted on 11/24/2001 6:18:03 PM PST by Cagey
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To: bvw
That's ketchup
3 posted on 11/24/2001 6:21:07 PM PST by aomagrat
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To: Cagey
The original copy is like that. What a fun read! /sarcasm
4 posted on 11/24/2001 6:28:36 PM PST by petuniasevan
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To: aomagrat
I have been looking for a bottle of Catsup. All I can find is Ketchup. Why is that?
5 posted on 11/24/2001 6:32:43 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
With this post missing parapgraph breaks you were just trying simulate in words an obstinate ketchup bottle that won't release any catsup, right? OK, I get it!
6 posted on 11/24/2001 6:32:57 PM PST by Revolting cat!
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: petuniasevan
The original copy is like that. What a fun read! /sarcasm

I noticed that too. And that adds to the irony. The government refers to paragraphs when there is only one in the first place. Amazing stuff.

8 posted on 11/24/2001 6:35:29 PM PST by Cagey
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To: bvw
(1) This is NOT interstate commerce.

Do you think Heinz and all the other catsup producers have catsup factories in each and every state?

(2) Using your own recipe might be felonious!

If you try to sell it commercially, I suppose it's possible.

(3) Why are we paying for this verbal dysentery?

The major producers of such products often support such specifications to prevent the market from being undercut by really crappy "generic" brands.

9 posted on 11/24/2001 6:38:14 PM PST by Willie Green
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To: bvw
Goverment lunch program rule?:

ketchup

Now the final battle began. In an attempt to raise their visibility, the Catsupers declared a slogan, "Its "Cat" not "Ket" so let's spell it that way! It’s simple to spell..Its simple to say!” which prompted the ketchupers to counter with "Catsup Schmatsup." Unfortunately the Catsupers were losing ground. No matter how hard they fought for ease of spelling, marketshare was going to the Ketchupers. The final straw came in the 1980's when Ketchup was declared a vegetable on the government's standards for school lunch menus. Suddenly Del Monte's Catsup, because of its spelling, was not on the approved list. Heartbroken Catsupers could see the end in sight. It wasn't long afterwards that Del Monte changed the product's name to Del Monte Ketchup. True Catsupers remain hopeful though. Catsuper President Vance Carson comments, "We're trying to get the government to add Catsup to its list of vegetables, too. But then the Mustard people heard this and they got all riled up and started a lobby, too. Then the Worcestershire Sauce people and the Mayonnaise people and the Salad Dressing people followed. All these other groups trying to be listed as vegetables suddenly boondoggled the entire campaign. And the name change is only Phase 1, too. Phase 2 will be reconvincing a manufacturer to use the name Catsup. Yea its a long battle...I don't know...sometimes I just don't know..." Ketchuper President Lyle Kent responds by throwing up his arms, "Its like they just can't let it go can they? Pack of sore losers."
So the controversy goes on.

10 posted on 11/24/2001 6:39:25 PM PST by joan
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To: hogwaller
Actually I saw a web site that claimed it was Reagan's fault. They said that Reagan made "ketchup" a school lunch vegetable, which left Del Monte's "Catsup" out of the school lunch program. Del Monte relabed everything "Ketchup".

The site, obviously has a liberal bias. In my never humble opinion, Reagan did good by RIF but did not RIF enough!

11 posted on 11/24/2001 6:41:33 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
To release catsup,ketchup,catchup from the bottle:

hold upside down and strike the bottle in the neck.

The one thing I learned from my ex.

That was one expensive lesson.

12 posted on 11/24/2001 6:42:26 PM PST by mdittmar
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To: joan
Yeah, that's the ticket!
13 posted on 11/24/2001 6:42:32 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
Del Monte brand still makes catsup -- check your shelves, see if you can get Del Monte items in your area.

All I know is that ketchup/catsup is supposed to be RED, not green or purple, the way Heinz is pushing this *Squeeze* stuff, very unappetizing.

14 posted on 11/24/2001 6:46:26 PM PST by Hedgehog
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To: bvw
Del Monte relabed everything "Ketchup".

Just saw your post -- we could still get catsup in Northern California before I moved away a few months ago ... perhaps it was just old stock. Too bad, what a thing to do to such a nice grocery item.

15 posted on 11/24/2001 6:48:55 PM PST by Hedgehog
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To: Willie Green; buaya
If one has factories in every state, so what? Or even if one ships from state-to-state, so what? The scope of the "Regulation of Interstate Commerce" intended by the founders was nowhere near as expansive as it has now become.

Used to be food manufacturers proudly displayed "Reg. PA Dept of Agriculture" on their products because the STATE of Pennsylvania had strict regulations of foods.

As you point out what often happens when we have Federal domination of regulations, the regulations are then turned into grants of patent to an entrenched elite, who carefully "groom" their legislative and executive agency friends. Innovators, inventors and improvers are shut out using the "patent" per onerous and limiting regulation.

16 posted on 11/24/2001 6:52:28 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw; carlo3b
Hey Carlo, don't you have a ketchup/catsup recipe? Does it meet the government standard?
17 posted on 11/24/2001 6:55:51 PM PST by jellybean
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To: petuniasevan
Well, if you go to this site, you can see it in its original formatted form.


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 21, Volume 2]
[Revised as of April 1, 2001]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 21CFR155.194]

[Page 477-479]
 
                        TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS
 
CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 
                           SERVICES--CONTINUED
 
PART 155--CANNED VEGETABLES--Table of Contents
 
   Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables
 
Sec. 155.194  Catsup.

    (a) Identity--(1) Definition. Catsup, ketchup, or catchup is the 
food prepared from one or any combination of two or more of the 
following optional tomato ingredients:
    (i) Tomato concentrate as defined in Sec. 155.191(a)(1), except that 
lemon juice, concentrated lemon juice, or safe and suitable organic 
acids may be used in quantities no greater than necessary to adjust the 
pH, and in compliance with Sec. 155.191(b).
    (ii) The liquid derived from mature tomatoes of the red or reddish 
varieties Lycopersicum esculentum P. Mill.
    (iii) The liquid obtained from the residue from preparing such 
tomatoes for canning, consisting of peelings and cores with or without 
such tomatoes or pieces thereof.
    (iv) The liquid obtained from the residue from partial extraction of 
juice from such tomatoes.


Such liquid is strained so as to exclude skins, seeds, and other coarse 
or hard substances in accordance with current good manufacturing 
practice. Prior to straining, food-grade hydrochloric acid may be added 
to the tomato material

[[Page 478]]

in an amount to obtain a pH no lower than 2.0. Such acid is then 
neutralized with food-grade sodium hydroxide so that the treated tomato 
material is restored to a pH of 4.2<SUP>plus-minus</SUP>0.2. The final 
composition of the food may be adjusted by concentration and/or by the 
addition of water. The food may contain salt (sodium chloride formed 
during acid neutralization shall be considered added salt) and is 
seasoned with ingredients as specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this 
section. The food is preserved by heat sterilization (canning), 
refrigeration, or freezing. When sealed in a container to be held at 
ambient temperatures, it is so processed by heat, before or after 
sealing, as to prevent spoilage.
    (2) Ingredients. One or any combination of two or more of the 
following safe and suitable ingredients in each of the following 
categories is added to the tomato ingredients specified in paragraph 
(a)(1) of this section:
    (i) Vinegars.
    (ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined 
in part 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.
    (iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.
    (3) Labeling. (i) The name of the food is ``Catsup,'' ``Ketchup,'' 
or ``Catchup.''
    (ii) The following shall be included as part of the name or in close 
proximity to the name of the food:
    (a) The statement ``Made from'' or ``Made in part from,'' as the 
case may be, ``residual tomato material from canning'' if the optional 
tomato ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iii) of this section or 
tomato concentrate containing the ingredient specified in 
Sec. 155.191(a)(1)(ii) is present.
    (b) The statement ``Made from'' or ``Made in part from,'' as the 
case may be, ``residual tomato material from partial extraction of 
juice'' if the optional tomato ingredient specified in paragraph 
(a)(1)(iv) of this section or tomato concentrate containing the 
ingredient specified in Sec. 155.191(a)(1)(iii) is present.
    (iii) Label declaration. Each of the ingredients used in the food 
shall be declared on the label as required by the applicable sections of 
parts 101 and 130 of this chapter; except that the name ``tomato 
concentrate'' may be used in lieu of the names ``tomato puree,'' 
``tomato pulp,'' or ``tomato paste'' and when tomato concentrates are 
used, the labeling requirements of Sec. 155.191(a)(3)(ii)(a) and 
(a)(3)(ii)(b) do not apply.
    (b) Quality. (1) The standard of quality for catsup is as follows: 
The consistency of the finished food is such that its flow is not more 
than 14 centimeters in 30 seconds at 20  deg.C when tested in a Bostwick 
Consistometer in the following manner: Check temperature of mixture and 
adjust to 20<SUP>plus-minus</SUP>1  deg.C. The trough must also be at a 
temperature close to 20  deg.C. Adjust end-to-end level of Bostwick 
Consistometer by means of the spirit level placed in trough of 
instrument. Side-to-side level may be adjusted by means of the built-in 
spirit level. Transfer sample to the dry sample chamber of the Bostwick 
Consistometer. Fill the chamber slightly more than level full, avoiding 
air bubbles as far as possible. Pass a straight edge across top of 
chamber starting from the gate end to remove excess product. Release 
gate of instrument by gradual pressure on lever, holding the instrument 
down at the same time to prevent its movement as the gate is released. 
Immediately start the stop watch or interval timer, and after 30 seconds 
read the maximum distance of flow to the nearest 0.1 centimeter. Clean 
and dry the instrument and repeat the reading on another portion of 
sample. Do not wash instrument with hot water if it is to be used 
immediately for the next determination, as this may result in an 
increase in temperature of the sample. For highest accuracy, the 
instrument should be maintained at a temperature of 
20<SUP>plus-minus</SUP>1  deg.C. If readings vary more than 0.2 
centimeter, repeat a third time or until satisfactory agreement is 
obtained. Report the average of two or more readings, excluding any that 
appear to be abnormal.
    (2) Determine compliance as specified in Sec. 155.3(b).
    (3) If the quality of catsup falls below the standard prescribed in 
paragraphs (b) (1) and (2) of this section, the label shall bear the 
general statement of substandard quality specified in Sec. 130.14(a) of 
this chapter, in the manner and form therein specified, but in

[[Page 479]]

lieu of such general statement of substandard quality when the quality 
of the catsup falls below the standard, the label may bear the 
alternative statement, ``Below Standard in Quality--Low Consistency.''
    (c) Fill of container. (1) The standard of fill of container for 
catsup, as determined by the general method for fill of container 
prescribed in Sec. 130.12(b) of this chapter, is not less than 90 
percent of the total capacity except:
    (i) When the food is frozen, or
    (ii) When the food is packaged in individual serving-size packages 
containing 56.7 grams (2 ounces) or less.
    (2) Determine compliance as specified in Sec. 155.3(b).
    (3) If the catsup falls below the standard of fill prescribed in 
paragraphs (c) (1) and (2) of this section, the label shall bear the 
general statement of substandard fill as specified in Sec. 130.14(b) of 
this chapter, in the manner and form therein specified.

[48 FR 3956, Jan. 28, 1983, as amended at 49 FR 15073, Apr. 17, 1984; 58 
FR 2883, Jan. 6, 1993]




18 posted on 11/24/2001 7:03:58 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob
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To: Tennessee_Bob
However, it still is stupid.
19 posted on 11/24/2001 7:04:25 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob
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To: Hedgehog
Ecch. The green ketchup. My wife broke down and got some a few months ago at the pleading of our six-year-old. And the taste was fine - other than the color, if you closed your eyes, I doubt you could tell the difference between the green and the regular.

Guess what? We ended up throwing out nearly the whole bottle and replacing it with regular ketchup anyway. We all discovered that it not only made everything going in turn green, but the day after you ate it, it made everything coming out turn green also, if you catch my drift ;)
20 posted on 11/24/2001 7:05:51 PM PST by general_re
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