Gay man crosses church's barriers; Installation risks Lutheran censure

Miami Herald ^ | Nov. 18, 2001 | JENNIFER BABSON

[Boxsford]

Just to make things clear. This is about ELCA and NOT the conservative Missouri-Synod Lutherans. There is a world of difference.
I never heard of a Florida-Bahama synod.

[Always Right]

`There's no way to describe the feeling of standing over a hospital bed or a bed at home with a gay man dying of AIDS with his partner there and the three of us holding hands and praying. All of a sudden, people's sexual orientation is not important. This is about human beings and human life.''

Wonder how he got AIDS in the first place........

[lady lawyer]

How dare they assert that God is on their side? What amazing arrogance.

[egarvue]

Whew, thanks - I was wondering what synod this was, couldn't imagine my Missouri Synod doing anything this gross....yet.

[lepton]

If God be for us, who can be against us?

For an If/then to result as they want, both the argument must be correct, and the "If" qualification must be satisfied.

[Rodney King]

There's no way to describe the feeling of standing over a hospital bed or a bed at home with a gay man dying of AIDS

Well, if he wasn't a fag he probably wouldn't be dying in the first place. How's that for relavence?

[Jaded]

``We didn't do it out of defiance; we just picked the person we thought was right for our congregation,'' said Carol Snider, president of the 40-member congregation. ``I think they (the church hierarchy) are going to have to lighten up and get out of the Dark Ages, and accept what the real world is about.''

That's special. They must not be terribly familiar with what Christ is about or about what submitting to the "world" means. Ah, to be able to serve two masters.

[Buffalo Bob]

...have been debating the role of gay men and lesbians in the church.

No debate is needed, and only Satan proclaims the need for a debate here. Their role is simple: Repent from their sin, leave the homosexual lifestyle and be forgiven.

OR, keep on with your New Butt Order® (NBO) ways and face the consequences. One of which ought to be banishment from folks who "choose" the correct path of living.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

How dare they assert that God is on their side? What amazing arrogance...

Like Abraham Lincoln during the civil war, I am less concerned with God being on my side and more concerned with me being on his side.

[AppyPappy]

``If people had walked in my shoes, they would have a whole different outlook,'' Kruger said. ``There's no way to describe the feeling of standing over a hospital bed or a bed at home with a polygamist dying of AIDS with his partners there and the eight of us holding hands and praying. All of a sudden, polygamy is not important. This is about human beings and human life.''

[AppyPappy]

He caught it from a toilet seat while working at the homeless children's shelter

[Gil4]

``If God be for us ..."

Unfortunately, it appears that He isn't:

Romans 1:24-27 (NKJV)

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NKJV)

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Jude 7 (NKJV)

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

[1Peter2:16]

``We are pushing them by finding congregations willing to disobey, and every time we do that, we are chipping away,'' Egertson said.

Serving God is not about disobeying but about obeying.

This is just more apostasy.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

[EdReform]

"...said Carol Snider, president of the 40-member congregation. "I think they (the church hierarchy) are going to have to lighten up and get out of the Dark Ages, and accept what the real world is about"..."

Reference: The Overhauling of Straight America:

"...While public opinion is one primary source of mainstream values, religious authority is the other. When conservative churches condemn gays, there are only two things we can do to confound the homophobia of true believers. First, we can use talk to muddy the moral waters. This means publicizing support for gays by more moderate churches, raising theological objections of our own about conservative interpretations of biblical teachings, and exposing hatred and inconsistency. Second, we can undermine the moral authority of homophobic churches by portraying them as antiquated backwaters, badly out of step with the times and with the latest findings of psychology. Against the mighty pull of institutional Religion one must set the mightier draw of Science and Public Opinion (the shield and word of that accursed “secular humanism”). Such an unholy alliance has worked well against churches before, on such topics as divorce and abortion. With enough open talk about the prevalence and acceptability of homosexuality, that alliance can work again here..." [Emphasis added]

*Homosexual Agenda bump... (Free Republic Bump List Register)

[patent]

There are far too many quotes in this one that beg for a response and I doubt I could do this justice. In any case, I find it interesting to see this posted on the same day that an ex-Catholic woman was ordained a "priest" by a schismatic group of so called "old-catholics."

patent

[FormerLib]

...an ex-Catholic woman was ordained a "priest" by a schismatic group of so called "old-catholics."

Odd, I thought the "old-catholics" tended to be the ones who broke away declaring Vatican II to be too liberal. I can only assume they failed to copyright the term and now anyone can use it.

[FormerLib]

``If God be for us, who can be against us?'' asked Martin Luther. That resolve was reproduced on the cover of a nine-page program commemorating the installation of Arlo David Peterson as pastor of Key West's Holy Trinity Lutheran Church.

Sounds as if they're taking Sola Scriptura to its natural conclusions. Bet they can quote a ton of Scripture, stripped of all traditional meaning and intent, to support their position (no pun intended).

[patent]

...an ex-Catholic woman was ordained a "priest" by a schismatic group of so called "old-catholics."

Odd, I thought the "old-catholics" tended to be the ones who broke away declaring Vatican II to be too liberal. I can only assume they failed to copyright the term and now anyone can use it.

Initially they broke away in protest of Papal infallibility. They also added a claim to be a return to Catholic Tradition. All of our schismatics claim that though. They very quickly deviated substantially from that tradition, and today are quite the odd collection, to the extent they still exist. As to copyrighting terms, they actually try very hard to portray themselves as being simply Catholic, and frequently wind up deceiving people into believing that they are in union with the Pope. We have that problem quite a bit today too.

patent  +AMDG