Does Crash Of Amrican Airlines Flight Signal End Of Rational Thought Process in U.S.?

MB26/FR/News Reports | MB26

[MindBender26]

Why does this all seem like an old Tom Leher song?

[DreamWeaver]

Did Clinton and Clintonism so skew American thinking on the issue of government

No doubt about it. We're just starting to see the fruits of their doings. Sorry to say, but more to come folks.

[Clinton's a rapist]

On the contrary, I followed these threads with great interest, and was most impressed by the way freepers zeroed on the key evidence--the location and condition of the aircraft's tail--while the major media was still pushing the original spin about engine failure. I see people who are way ahead of the game here. Sure, there's always a few idiots whose only contribution to any discussion is to parrot the latest government press conference and throw out the usual stale ad hominems about "tin-foil hatters" and "conspiracy theorists," but most of the debate I saw was intelligent, informed and goal-oriented. This is a great place to see the news dissected and the issues thrashed out. Is it any wonder I'm addicted?

[dead]

Why does this all seem like an old Tom Leher song?

I was thinking Randy Newman, but I know what you mean.

[katze]

Great post. What bothers me is that their seems a certain fragment of this board who gets excited when events like this happen so they can rail against the govt.

58 posted on 11/14/01 7:36 AM Pacific by jern

You did rather well yourself, jern; summed it up rather nicely.

[MindBender26]

When you have a moment, take a look at the wild speculations stated as fact that have also abounded. Luckilly, you may be able to seperate wheat from chaff, but there have been incredible cycles of chaff rising to the top, too.

If you are a pilot, or even have just something beyond a general interest in aviation, you might find some of the postings of "Gargantua" very interesting. It's as if he opened a dictionary of aeronautical terms and began linking them together willy-nilly, or possibly, (my paranoia here) trying to make FR look stupid in the world of free thought and expression.

Remember, free speech is not free. Beyond a cadre willing to fight if necessary to keep it free, there is a responsibility upon the speaker to be aware of the physical consequences of his speech.

One must not shout "fire" in a crowded theater (although I once yelled "theater" as my old elementary school burned to the ground... but I digress.....)

How many "fire shouters" now haunt FR?

[Clinton's a rapist]

Yeah, I remember Gargantua. Luckily, my BS detectors are excellent, so I didn't even spend any time reading his posts. But, it's not like he went unanswered. It's a discussion forum. If we could get all our answers from one, guaranteed, cast-iron, triple A-rated authority, just by watching the boob tube, there wouldn't be much point in having a FreeRepublic, would there?

[MindBender26]

Why does this all seem like an old Tom Leher song?

I was thinking Randy Newman, but I know what you mean.

I'm dating myself. (No, that does not mean I am doing strange things with left hand in a bathroom adorned with old Playboy magazines...)

[tberry]

"People are making, defending and angrily supporting crash theories based on some rumor someone else says a friend told them was heard on the radio."

People are grasping at theory because they desperately want an explanation and cause and therefore a solution but no longer believe anything the government spins.

If the government had been and was seen as being honest , people would have no reason to grasp at explanations.

[katze]

"Seems to me, you're pissed off because your 'damage control' isn't working. Moreover, your pissed off because people aren't listening to you."

Who are you to say people aren't listening to him? How about telling your (not "you're", just plain "your") thoughts of what happened to AA587? Do you have pilot credentials?

[MindBender26]

one, guaranteed, cast-iron, triple A-rated authority

You rang, Sir?

(just kidding!)

[FITZ]

It's pretty obvious that those using "physics" to explain that this can't be anything but an accident also do not have access to facts so why discuss yesterday at all. You can wait a year or so until they make the movie of it. People using science are speculating just as much as those who are using intuition because at this point the "facts" haven't really been given and may not be known.

[FITZ]

I'm also still not satisfied with the "facts" given out about Waco that Koresh was a child abuse and the 80 people burned their own home up.

[katze]

I'm also still not satisfied with the "facts" given out about Waco that Koresh was a child abuse and the 80 people burned their own home up.

133 posted on 11/14/01 11:23 AM Pacific by FITZ

Nor am I, but different administration, different circumstances. I trust this president, and believe he will tell of the findings; for that matter, I cannot see him accepting anything less than fact.

[MindBender26]

People are grasping at theory because they desperately want an explanation and cause and therefore a solution but no longer believe anything the government spins. If the government had been and was seen as being honest , people would have no reason to grasp at explanations.

I respectfully disagree.

About 20 years ago, we entered a time when America became fat, dumb and happy. We wanted instant breakfast, fast food, fast cars, quick sex, easy abortions.

We wanted no responsibilities and a free ride. We wanted everything sorted out for us in time for the closing credits. My God, the Ground War in Iraq lasted 4 Whole Days! What went wrong!

We wanted instant innocence for OJ and rapid redemption for a disgraced President. Three days after "confessing his sins" to the Reverend Jessie Jackson, Mr. Clinton pronounced himself cured of his moral miniaturization. Alleluia!

Now we want instant information. We have it with an internet that connects the world. The only thing we haven't figured out is that sometimes this instant information, like instant sex, can be very wrong.

Are we so spoiled a people that we must know every answer in time for the headlines of World News Tonight?

I think this whole post-crash thing illustrates that technology can give us instant answers. The only problem is, if we want the right answers, sometimes we have to wait a while.

Do we have the patience to wait for the right answers... on everything from airplane crashes to morals and ethics?

[Solson]

Well...yes...pilot credentials AND engineering credentials. But, it doesn't matter. We simply have one side saying its terrorism and will accept nothing else and yet another side, supported by MB26's vanity, that it's mechanical failure, that accident's happen, on the other side.

I've been attacked by both sides for being too much on 'the other side' so I presume I right where the majority of people are right now. Namely, while they'll wait to hear the findings, what the government is saying and what they are doing don't quite match. Moreover, the idea of wake turbulence and other "floated" reasons for this tragedy are without a foundation.

So finally, my thoughts...

IMO, there are two potential outcomes: One, catastrophic structural failure due to corrosion and/or maintenance issues or
two: terrorism or sabotage of the aircraft.

[L.N. Smithee]

What bothers people are the "if you can't see that this was definitely terrorism, then you are a moronic pawn of the state" posters. They are beyond merely irrational.

What's worst about that lot is that they are well aware that in 95% of these type of mysteries, their theories are either: a) flat-out unprovable by any conceivable method, or b) provable only if the person(s) with the most to lose agrees to hang him/herself. Nonetheless, they will insist that YOU are insulting their intelligence for not agreeing with their baseless conjecture.

I'm gonna scream next time I see a Danny Williams thread.

[katze]

IMO, there are two potential outcomes: One, catastrophic structural failure due to corrosion and/or maintenance issues or two: terrorism or sabotage of the aircraft.

136 posted on 11/14/01 11:35 AM Pacific by Solson

And that is likely where MindBender is coming from, and his point is that why not wait until findings are known. I also agree with you, there are two possible outcomes, and as you stated.

The next problem is, there are those on FR who will not believe any "findings" are correct, and there is a Govt coverup. This could be considered a third outcome, already deciderd by some about 30 min after the crash.

[Solson]

My goodness you've got an ego. You MUST be a pilot. First, who are you to ask for an end to peoples opinions? Last I heard, Jim still determined which people could post on this forum and which topics were off limits. Making speculation, no matter how bombastic, about the reasons for this crash are par for the course. Sure, some are completely outlandish and a portion of FR tends to relate EVERYTHING back to a government conspiracy to coverup. Big Deal.

The damage control I reference is that of your livelihood. It would be a much better outcome for the airline industry, as strange as it might be, if this was mechanical failure. That can be fixed. It can be addressed. It wouldn't weaken an already fragile psyche of flyers in this country. That is your damage control.

Knock off the secret decoder ring crap as well. I don't buy the 'government did it' BS any more that you do. I just don't let it BOTHER me so much. It is your assumptions about people on FR, and I presume people in general that continue to aggravate.

For people not to listen to you, a supposed real life expert about all things with wings, must really be a blow to your ego. I'd hate to see the size of the face of your watch.

[Solson]

I've known that is where MB26 is coming from. Thus, it is not my complaint about this post. It is the overall presumption that he should be allowed to be heard while others should not.

You know what, if a fool wants to be fooled, he will. No matter how much one posts against it here, it won't matter.