China & Russia Deploy New Missile

NewsMax.com ^ | Wed, Nov 7, 2001 | Charles R Smith

[FreepForever]

”If the essay you just posted is accurate, then why on earth are you even bothering saying China is a threat to America? “

See post #52.

”All that essay says is China has too many problems to pose a threat to anyone. Again, you're unfocused and make no sense.“

We are talking about nuclear missiles here, not economy. Who is unfocused?

”Try to actually respond to the question I posed. Why on earth would China even want to attack America at all when China's #1 priority is economic development?”

See post #52 again.

”As the article stated, China isn't even going to bother trying to engage in any costly missile-for-missile arms race with America.”

The article has not touched on arms race. Read that again.

”China's got better things to do like grow its economy, which is the ultimate goal. China isn't going to sacrifice that through some expensive arms race.”

Then why this deployment?

[amory]

As for the essay you posted, everyone knows China still has problems to solve, but China is currently actively addressing them and indeed has made much progress already in the past 20 years. For example, more people have been lifted out of the poverty in the past 20 years in China than at any other time in history. China has made enough progress lately that over 1 million Taiwanese of all people have decided in the past 20 months to move to the mainland. Whatever progress China has made in the past 20 years will only be rivaled by the changes China makes in the next 20 years. I even believe China may become democratic, but don't for a minute think America will still not hate China then. America feels primarily threatened by China's economic potential, whether democratic or not.

[FreepForever]

Just a friendly caution here that what you are posting are not classified. Our enemies doesn't need our help. Sniff.... sniff....I can smell PRC net spies here. Do you smell anything?

[zog]

--hey, thanks for the clarification and the accurate numbers! sometimes I get lost in all the makes and models! So, what's your take on it, anyway? why would we give up the newer better systems? Mind boggling. I know we had that old treaty, but basically, that was when there was still the soviet union, not just 'russia". I don't get it. Mirv contributes to deterrent, it just does. And russkys and china both building the roadmobiles as fast as they can-I smell a rat. Unless we got some secret new whizzbang I don't even want to know about! I always think we have at least one or two generations of anything deployed before it becomes public, anyway. Seems like the only smart thing to do really.

[amory]

Your post #52 only states 3 circumstances under which China "could" attack the US. It doesn't say why China has any motivation whatsoever to attack China in the first place. So I ask you again, why does China even want to attack America in the first place?

The article specificially mentions that China doesn't want to engage in any costly missile-for-missile arms race with America. Not only are you unfocused when writing but you're unfocused or lack concentration when reading too.

The deployment is a small deployment that is consistent with China's philosophy of a minimal but effective deterrent capability. It's not developing 6,000 missiles like America. Secondaly, even the smallest country in the world, Brunei, has a military. China, too, has a right of at least minimal self-defense, especially in light of the fact that China is likely to become the world's largest economy in a few decades. In all of world history, the nation with the largest economy has also usually had at least some sort of military, merely to protect its economic interests. Third, is America so insecure that it only feels safe if everyone else is completely disarmed? America's the only country in the world that's allowed to have weapons or have the right to defend itself. Considering the hostility to China expressed on FreeRepublic alone (you yourself witnessed the "Nuke China" comments), China would be insane not to try to defend itself.

[FreepForever]

So what? You have just proven AmericanS are "China-haters" as much as Chinese are "America-haters".

CASE CLOSED

[FreepForever]

"The article specificially mentions that China doesn't want to engage in any costly missile-for-missile arms race with America. Not only are you unfocused when writing but you're unfocused or lack concentration when reading too."

I was referring to post #56

[Quix]

CONCUR
CONCUR
CONCUR
AND CONCUR
AGAIN.

It's difficult even for this shrink to understand how he has the gall to face any mirror.

I realize he doesn't have the decency to give--what is it--8 or so litres of blood AT ONE TIME--but then, who'd want it.

Seems to me there was this crazy movie once . . . where the villan ended up being thrown dramatically into the maw of a . . . well, one of those noisey machines tree trimmers pull around behind their trucks . . . naw, that would contaminate a perfectly good mulch maker. . . . guess we'll just have to leave him to God's perfect justice.

[amory]

I'm not any net spy for China. I'm an American who works in China for a major US hi-tech company. China is merely trying to catch up to the First World. But many paranoid and insecure Americans find China's economic potential inherently threatening, just because Mrs. Lee now enjoys a higher standard of living than 20 years ago. Some Americans are only happy if China didn't develop its economy at all and stay poor.

As for democracy, anyone with a brain realizes that for democratic Russia or India or Indonesia, democracy has only made everyone poor. It's better to follow the proven, successful, one-party authoritarian economic development path of S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. that has worked so well over the past 50 years.

Just look at Indonesia recently. Due to Western pressure, they overthrow authoritarian leader Suharto just a few years ago. Now that society is teetering on chaos daily. 3 decades of economic progress under Suharto was destroyed nearly overnight. Or even look at Taiwan today after it became a full-fledged multi-party democracy 20 months ago. $25 billion in capital flight has left the country because Taiwan's 95 different political parties doesn't instill economic confidence for investors and Taiwan's own businessmen. Or look at Russia in 1991. Another case of massive, permanent capital flight out of the country.

So the examples of Indonesia, Russia, Indonesia, and even democratic Taiwan today belie the naive American view that once a devoloping nation adopts democracy, it's going to become a mirror image of the US and its political and economic systems are going to operate as smoothly as America's own. Best to adopt democracy only after China's society has developed capitalism and rule of law and other principles necessary to democracy to a very advanced level. Then, any democratic political system adopted then would be more stable and not be any joke like India, Russia, or Indonesia today. 2-3 generations of Indians needlessly spent their lives in poverty over the past 50 years due to democracy's innate slowness delaying needed structural economic reforms that would have benefitted India's people greatly. In just 20 years, among other things, China's been able to give its population a 90% literacy rate, while India's literacy rate is still below sub-Saharan Africa's. You call that a model to follow?

[Don Joe]

Wasn't there also a prohibition against battlefield commanders, sub captains, etc. being able to launch on their own? I'm pretty sure Slick had something in that order that required that the launch machinery be modified so that nothing could be done unless a signal was received from the holder of the "football". IIRC reading about a lot of concern about how we'd be helpless, unable to retaliate at all if DC was hit first, since there'd be no signal, hence, no ability to launch, even though the guys at the silos and subs would know that we were under attack.

[amory]

It's clear from the "Nuke China" comments on FreeRepublic that many Americans are indeed China-haters. But as for whether Chinese are America-haters, that's incorrect. When Chinese defend their country against Americans, it's only because the Americans are attacking them in the first place with. Chinese want to know why Americans hate them merely for starting to practice capitalism and trying to improve their standard of living and quality of life. Is capitalism a crime now in Americans' minds?

[Don Joe]

"Freepers are accustomed to always resorting to the 'Nuke China' first option. This only shows they're rather dim and unsophisticated. China has no plans to even pose any military threat to America over the next several decades."

That would make you them liars, since they've gone on record as saying that they are gearing up for such a war.

But screw that. What I wanna know is how come the Chinese operatives always start posting their near-identical boilerplate the same day they sign up here? How come they never age their accounts a week or so in order to better feign civilian status?

[Quix]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I think you fail to take into account. . .

As Tienanmen demonstrated . . .

They do

***********NOT*********** CARE

about losing 100's of MILLIONS of the lives of their own people. They were quite comfortable enough to kill their own children and grandchildren largely in the name of their vanity and pride at Tienanmen.

Mao bragged that they could lose 300 million and STILL rule the world. . . the megalomaniac leaders do NOT care about such losses. . . . many do not even care if THEY die as long as China can finally rule the world as is "her natural right and destiny" in their view.

[GlesenerL]

SDI NOW!!

'72 ABM Treaty is VOID!

[Don Joe]

"Chinese are prudent."

OTOH, they are prolific -- and careless -- posters on FreeRepublic.

[FreepForever]

Yeah. Most Americans are die-hard communists and hate China for not sticking to the principle. LOL

[amory]

Nukes are like gun control. Everyone has a right to defend themselves. If you have 6,000 ICBM's pointed at you, you might also want a few nukes yourself to defend yourself. I know Americans are only happy if everyone else is totally disarmed, but as long as Americans continue to maintain such hostility toward China (witness all the "Nuke China" statements on Freerepublic), it's only sensible for China to prepare to defend itself against the legions of hostile Americans.

[Don Joe]

"Exactly why do you think China even feels the need to do anything military?"

Other than the fact that they've said they do?

Oh, before I forget -- say hi to "Simon Summer" and the rest of the gang (of four?)

[FreepForever]

You are right on the mark, Don Joe. Good marksmanship.