Would you die for your faith?

The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 11/10/2001 | Katie Grant

[onedoug]

Pity the blind author's evident inability to distinguish between light and darkness.

[untenured]

It is probably a treasonable thought, but it may be that, although I disagree with the causes that would-be Muslim martyrs are espousing, in the fibre of my being I have more in common with them than with many of my apparently more sophisticated friends and neighbours.

This last sentence summarizes beautifully why this is such a dopey article. Dying for your faith is not independently moral or admirable, but depends entirely on what the higher moral claims of your faith are. There is no morality - none, zero - in dying for the faith of the Taliban, because what the Taliban is fighting for is so execrable.

And oh BTW, if dying for your faith requires you to take down thousands of innocents with you, your faith itself has serious problems.

If the author has a lot in common with the Islamists from "Plaistow, Luton, Crawley, Birmingham or Burnley" simply because she's deeply religious and so are they, she needs to think long and hard about what it is her religion asks her to do.

[WilliamWallace1999]

What a bunch of new age crap. If this author wants to look for parallels to the group psychosis now gripping the Muslim world, she should do a little research into the cult of death that was Bushido. The only way the free world stamped out that corrupt belief system was with overwhelming horror followed by compassionate reconstruction.

Islamic "militants" and kamikaze pilots were cut from the same cloth. Educated, sexually repressed zealots brainwashed to turn the passion of youth into a destructive force. The same twisted lie of a "free ride" to paradise was sold to both groups. What a choice for a youth, live a long life dedicated to self-sacrifice and good works or go out in one big fireball after sake, table-dances, geishas, and all night raves.

Only when we smash the corrupt fundamentalist leadership of Islam that is molding these boys to their Satanic missions, will we stop the bombers.

WW1999

[Pete]

The question is not "Would you die for your faith?".

The questions is "Would you kill for your faith?".

[NetValue]

Message to those who spread their faith "by the sword":

I will be glad to help you die for your faith. I would rather live for mine!

[Docbarleypop]

To die for your faith? This is one of the biggest farces Ive heard in quite some time. Those who died while killing innocent people in the Twin Towers did not die for their faith, they died to take faith away. Those Christians that died for their faith, did not attack, they had no alternative. The terrorists beliefs were not under attack so they didnt die to protect their beliefs but to spread them. I am sure in the past, christians, jews, buddhists, hindus have all forced their beliefs onto some other group, infact i am sure of it. all under the name of religion. as the aggressors they arent "martyrs." they die for glory of their cause and not to protect it. I am in the military and if called to do so, I am willing to give up my life for my country, and way of life and for those not willing to do so.

[jlogajan]

I don't care why anyone kills anyone. I just hope we can kill killers before they kill us.

[Malacoda]

It takes more courage to live by the tenets of your faith!

[Havisham]

I'm glad you asked that. I have avoided teaching my child about the early Christian martyrs because I don't want her to get a complex, you know? But, yes, I would die for my faith in the sense that I will never submit to Satan's lies. I hope that's clear.

[PRND21]

Family - yes
Country - yes
Faith - no

[Destructor]

Why not? The Lord died for me.

[Brookhaven]

Don't make promises that you don't know you can keep.

The example of Peter saying he would die for Christ, then turning around and denying he ever knew him should be enough warning to anyone not to make these type of statements.

[Dimensio]

This last sentence summarizes beautifully why this is such a dopey article. Dying for your faith is not independently moral or admirable, but depends entirely on what the higher moral claims of your faith are. There is no morality - none, zero - in dying for the faith of the Taliban, because what the Taliban is fighting for is so execrable.

The problem with calling the article dopey is that the author is not attempting to justify the claims or actions of the Taliban or its teachings. The author is more than anything noting that fundamentalist Islams of that flavour are willing and even eager to die for their professed cause. That you find their actions to have zero (or negative) moral value is irrelevant -- to most of them the cause is righteousness and justice and to them that cause is worth sacrificing their own lives.
I'm not saying that the article is completely accurate, but it is an interesting question. How many devout Christians are willing to die for their beliefs -- not just place their lives at great risk, but to actually willingly sacrifice their lives for the sake of their morality. I'm certainly not referring to flying planes into buildings (I do not know what hypothetical situation might have been imagined by the article's author), but just a situation where a Christian would knowingly accept death because the actions leading to their death were the most "moral" imaginable (given their choices).
I'm not saying that no Christian or even that many Christians would not make such a sacrifice. I do wonder how many would face such a death with the same willingness as Islamic suicide bombers, though all of that is purely speculation: I have no means to guage the genuine willingness or fearlessness of a Christian or an Islamic terroist.

I find the Taliban's version of "morality" and their methods deplorable, but that people are willing and sometimes even eager to die in support of this morality is an interesting gauge of the followers' sincerity.

[xJones]

You nailed that good. I do think that the terrorist attacks have back-fired since it has caused formerly disinterested people to take a look at the muslims. What we see is not good and should cause no one to want to convert. BTW, if forced I would die for my Christian faith, I can't imagine joining the muslim idiots. Thanks for your service to our country.

[KirkandBurke]

YES!! To die heroically is easier to do. We often do the heroic without thought for self, almost as an instinct. But to live by one's faith, that takes deliberate, concsious action, perseverance and a willingness to suffer ridicule and persecution. Few have the stomach for it.

[Temple Drake]

ping

[Macaw]

I'd like to say I would but I'm probably too much of a coward.

[Temple Drake]

I have taught my children about the English and Irish martyrs and the hideous tortures and deaths they suffered simply for refusing to recant their faith. Far from "giving them a complex" it has helped them understand the serious nature of the stakes in life. I absolutely would die for my faith. I would not "make sacrifice to the gods". However, I am no pacifist. I would kill to defend myself or others. I don't find this article strange and repulsive as some early posters seem to, just food for serious thought.

[xJones]

Obviously you don't know how many Christian have died for their faith. The number is practically countless.

Also, Atta and others weren't exactly living their "faith", they got wasted on vodka in a bar the night before the bombings. These were nihilists with a grudge against America.