Posted on 11/07/2001 10:37:51 PM PST by TaZ
Sorry, you need to pull your head out.
I've been around and owned guns my entire life and have used them in both a professional and non-professional basis. If there's one thing I've learned is that you NEVER EVER pick one up in anger ...EVER.
Your notion that guns are to be used on "trespassers" is dumb. Guns are used to protect. Whether it's protecting your life, your family, your property, your country or freedom. They're not to be used to make a point, win an argument. The whole problem with guns is people who use them to exercise their will. From the common criminal to Josef Stalin those who do so are part of the problem not the solution.
This is why incidents such as Ruby Ridge, Waco and Elian Gonzales are so unjust and absurd. Because people (in these cases the Feds) used dangerous weapons simply to exercise their will. This Cooper d00d was no better than they.
I don't feel sorry when a bully with a gun gets his body "air conditioned", be it the bullies at Waco or this asshole. In fact I find a strange sort of satisfaction in it.
As a fellow second amendment suppoter, you should know this. I'm asking you to rethink your position on "real property".
It appears that you too have that same kind of fantasy world occupying your imagination as well.
William Cooper's choices would lead any rational Patriot to the conclusion that he was preparing himself for martydom. This was the road he chose, and it is obvious that he wanted a firefight at some point, and it appears he got one. Moreover, even though a lawman paid the ultimate price for taking out this rabid dog, it could have been much worse if they hadn't employed a plan to draw him from his house.
For someone who claims to be a protector of the Constitution and Declaration of Independance, Cooper should have recognized the lawful jurisdiction of the Apache County Sheriff's Office, and submitted to the arrest warrant and dealt with it in a peaceful, judicious manner. I am sure that many Patriots would have helped him if he were in jail, and who knows maybe he could have got some help from a Patriot therapist for the delusional paranoia he was suffering from.
In the end, he went out like a criminal, not a Patriot.
But I'm sure that many unstable people like you will worship him as a martyr to console the injury to your delusions of grandeur.
I don't know that anyone is served by casting our fellow citizens into these "roles" of _criminals_ and _heroes_ . Mostly, we're just normal people trying to get by and, ever since the Klinton years (possibly ever since the Kennedy years) "normal" folk just trying to get by more and more often seem to be ending up dying strange deaths...
In Cooper's case, even on his web site the "accepted" version of his death is that he "ran" across his lawn, shooting at a deputy and hitting him in the head. Well, you don't have to turn Cooper into some mythical figure to ask can an OLD MAN with a WOODEN LEG run across a lawn and fire accurately enough to hit somebody in the head twice?
In another thread, somebody made a simple observation. Since 911, the Government has managed to arrest hundreds or even thousands of illegal & legal aliens here in the US without any of them getting killed. NOW they can't even arrest one OLD MAN with a WOODEN LEG without getting a deputy shot and the old man dead. Does a person have to be a tin foil kook to suggest that something seems wrong here? [shrugs]
Mark W.
First off, I fully respect property rights. But just because you own a piece of property does not mean that you should put the barrel of a gun to any person that steps on it.
In the real estate appraisal business, I must go on other people's property all the time. They have no idea I am coming, they go through the bank, and the bank places the order with us. Most homeowners don't realize that someone actually will come to their house when it is a drive-by. When I drive onto these people's property and they are there, they usually walk out and inquire what I am doing in a very polite manner.
I get kind of nervous on the large estates that are very secluded. Surprisingly, they are usually the kindest ones. These people even ask me to come in for something to drink sometimes. They do not run out with a rifle telling me to leave immediately. Sure they have a right to do it, but that is purely uncalled for, and anyone that would do that would immediately raise my suspicions as to their activities.
However in the case of Cooper there is absolutely no right to threaten lives of people that are on property that you THINK is yours, but in fact is not.
Sorry buddy, Libertarians are only 1%ers. THEY are the aberration. Aggies are mainly conservatives, not immoral loving Libertarians (that's not saying all Libertarians are, just the pro-druggie types) :-)
I personally know some. They LOVE to let people know that they will shoot anything that touches their property.
"I don't know that anyone is served by casting our fellow citizens into these "roles" of _criminals_ and _heroes_ ."
Oh really? What would you say of the signers of the Declaration of Independance who put their life, property and families on the line by their actions? Were they not heroes?
And what would you say of the FBI sniper who shot Randy Weavers wife through the head while she stood in her home holding her baby? Was he and those who supervised him not criminals acting under color of law? (I don't care if he was just following orders, this was not an act of war, she was a US citizen.)
The last time I looked, it is unlawful to shoot at Peace Officer who is trying to arrest you while serving a lawful warrant. It has been so every since this Country was founded. That makes William Cooper a criminal in my book.
Maybe it isn't PC to call a spade a spade, but I call 'em as I see 'em.
Any Patriot who really wants to take our Country back to our former greatness should be truly sickened by William Cooper's final days.
I hate to say it, but I would rather arrest one of them any day over a deranged militia kook.
They justify, to themselves, the act of shooting an officer for merely stepping on to their property. Cooper got what was comming.
BTW looks like TaZ accidentally posted a reply to you, to me.
CORRECTION: My previous post was diected to MARKWAR.
You avoid the point--you said Ruby Ridge types, not some of your acquaintances.
Present evidence about Ruby Ridge people "shooting anything that touches their property."
Unlike the William Cooper story, the Weavers did nothing to illicit the response of the Feds. Randy Weavers story is a true American tragedy that was authored by the Feds.
There are many other derogatory "American terms" that are out there for you to use, do you feel that using those are proper?? Of course, if it applies to anything but American Patriot Christians they are considered "hate" speech" now. Do you need to resort to using stereotypical sayings to support your positions?
I don't care how deranged or demented anyone is, as long as they respect the lawful Rights and Priveledges of their fellow Americans. It appears that William Cooper didn't follow this crede.
It is not an American term, it is a Sarah Brady term.
Please share your proof and justification that he threatened a fellow citizen for no good reason. As I understand the reports, several parties encroached and trespassed onto his real property which Cooper had procured primarily for his physical security. Even after warnings and communications not to threaten Cooper's security area, they still insisted upon approaching him, then charged him with aggravated assault when he warned them that he would next use deadly force to defend himself.
The real question is WHY would any idiot continue to trespass, encroach, and promote a contrived conflict? Perhaps their agenda wasn't contrived, but any manipulation to bring about Cooper's demise.
Cooper already had lost a leg from "LEOs" in plain clothes physically running him off the road.
There also is insufficient collaboration to give any credibility to the Sheriff's report. Your position is to take the murdering crew's version of events.
If you really believe your position, then you must really be afraid of one-legged armed men running away at night because at will they can make 2 out of 2 clean head shots even under duress. (Not)
That is what Ruby Ridge was about?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.