Some Thoughts on the Harry Potter Series

Lifecenter ^ | Michael O'Brien author of "A Landscape with Dragons" and "Father Elijah"

[Dan Day]

I struggle, as I think any person should, with not only what my children should be exposed to, but what I should expose myself to. There are some things I don't think kids should be exposed to, and it can't simply be summed up by the subject matter covered, but must also consider the viewpoint from which it is covered. You, unlike some others, have made specific statements that indicate you've read the books and don't think the subject matter is covered in a way that is negative. I appreciate that, although I may not agree with your assessment. I have read all of the Rings books several times, and have read them to my daughters, along with the Narnia books, and several other fantasy pieces. OTOH, I didn't want my children to see "The Craft", because after viewing it, I concluded that (1) the people who created it were probably involved in witchcraft, and (2) that the movie tried to make a case that witchcraft and the occult were a way to overcome the insecurities of adolescence. You may disagree with that assessment, but that's where I'm coming from. As a Christian, I'm supposed to avoid such things. Other people are, of course, under no such prohibition.

Thank you.

I find nothing objectionable about your position as you've stated it here. To each his own, and you've described your viewpoint well and sincerely.

My biggest gripe with Aquinasfan and many others isn't so much what they have chosen as their position, but in the manner in which they've presented it. Few things drive me up the wall faster than incoherent presentation, inability to field simple questions or challenges, making decisions without gathering the relevant facts first, etc. -- especially when they're delivered with an apparent attitude of, "I'm being the most sensible person in the room and you're not, so there."

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, as long as they can make a good presentation for their case. I can respect that. But it's frustrating to have someone tell you you're full of manure, and the best reason they can come up with is little better than, "because I say so".

[k2blader]

Thank you for posting this thoughtful article. It's always most illuminating to read what other Christians think of current social fads such as Harry Potter.

Recently, I participated in a Popular Fiction class at a local university, and Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone was on the reading list. I found J. K. Rowling's writing style captivating and her characters quite compelling. Not to mention, she sure knows how to produce a plot that kids will lick up faster than ice cream.

Interestingly, the students who did a presentation on the Harry Potter book displayed some of the pro-occult characteristics that O'Brien mentions in his article. One girl stood in front of the class for several minutes proudly describing her Wiccan beliefs. Another "educated" us on various spells & magick of witchcraft. Two more students spoke of the "paranoid Christian-driven backlash" against the Harry Potter series, implying that it was "stupid" to adhere to such a value system.

From a Christian persepective, I think O'Brien makes an *excellent* point in saying that "there are a great many things to be cautious about in our present secular culture." And yes, IMHO, Harry Potter is one of them.

It's startling to see how many folks seem to have such passionate views on the pro-Harry side of the aisle. Their responses only tend to reinforce my general agreement with O'Brien's observations.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

There's far more truly "occult" material in "Lord of the Rings" than in "Harry Potter", and in LotR it's presented far more seriously and frighteningly (which isn't surprising, since LotR was aimed at a more mature audience than is Harry Potter).

If you consider The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to be acceptable, I fail to see how you could object to anything in Harry Potter. Plus, Harry Potter contains a great many good lessons on the virtues of honesty, loyalty, hard work, respect for authority, not judging a book by its cover, and so on.

This in partiicular was your inane statement. Tolkien was thoroughly Catholic and wrote from a Christian perspective. His subcreation was intended to mirror the fundamental realities of the real creation of God. Use of magic in Tolkien ALWAYS has negative consequences, unlike Potter. Fundamental distinctions are made between virtues --perseverence, courage/fortitude, selflessness-- and vices. In Potter, vices are made into virtues, some virtues become vices, evil (magic) is used for good, without negative consequences, the lines are not only blurred but molded together and purposely made indistinct.

This thread began with O'Brien's analysis of Potter from a Christian perspective. Please keep your attention together here, and do not castigate me for continuing along with that perspective.

And again, given the fundamental, diametrically opposed nature of Tolkien's subcreation to that of Potter, your comments noted above are indeed inane.

[thathamiltonwoman]

I guess this is one of those non-negotialbe arguments. People who hate the Potter series can't be convinced otherwise and people who love it won't hear of any criticism of it. I'm Catholic and I happen to love Harry Potter but then, I'm an adult.

Children can distinguish between fantasy and reality better than adults realize. I read Cinderella but I never tried to ride a pumpkin to school. I read all of Ursula LeGuinn's books but I never took her views of heaven and earth seriously. I read Steven King but other than going out of my way to be kind to the class losers it didn't affect me in anyway. As I said before this is an unwinable argument. Both sides believe what they believe and that's it.

[tuesday afternoon]

No, I found Book 2, Chamber of Secrets, disturbing enough. And after reading that the author is including actual incantattions for "realism," I see no reason to continue with the series.

[Aquinasfan]

Re: #123: Well said.

That's my understanding of Rings also, and that's why I've begun reading Lord of the Rings to my six-year-old at bedtime. (OK, the upcoming movie had some influence on my decision as well). So far though, it's had the effect of rapidly putting her to sleep ;-) Then again, that isn't so bad sometimes.

[Aquinasfan]

Forgive me if I prefer not to give much weight to the book reviews of someone who has proudly renounced reading.

Renounced novels in my 20s. Read a lot of non-fiction though. I'm in my late 30s and have read some good novels in the last ten years.

[Aquinasfan]

While I haven't read the books, I did watch a fairly lengthy interview with the author, in which she acknowledges studying witchcraft and using actual spells in the books that were in witchcraft books, written by wiccans.

You got a link for that? I think it is more likely than not that she's been involved in channeling. Books on witchcraft that occupy the top four slots in the NY Times best-seller list don't just pop out of thin air.

[Aquinasfan]

It's obsessive to spend lord knows how long typing in pages of text verbatim from the book, without having a single bit of reflection to add to the duplication effort.

I just thought I'd let people draw their own conclusions. You still haven't defended the part in book four where one of the main bad guys cuts off his own arm and casts it into a cauldron to complete his spell. You might want to type in the entire page so people can see the surrounding context.

[Dead Corpse]

This in partiicular was your inane statement. Tolkien was thoroughly Catholic and wrote from a Christian perspective. His subcreation was intended to mirror the fundamental realities of the real creation of God. Use of magic in Tolkien ALWAYS has negative consequences, unlike Potter.

Apparently you skipped the whole section on Tom Bombadil. The whole thing boiled down to the Forces of Good vs. the Forces of Evil.

For all you slavering anti-Potter-ites. What book has women getting their father drunk so the can have sex with him? What book has a king getting the blessing of a Witch before a big battle? What book has the central figure consorting with a notorius whore, tax collectors, ect...? In what book does the prime deity expect his followers to go out and slaughter millions of people just because they are of a different race? In what book does that same deity NUKE an entire city?

There is much more violence, sex, and MAGIC in the Bible than there is in the Potter books. Keep your kids grounded in reality and stop trying to spread hysteria.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

What book has women getting their father drunk so the can have sex with him? What book has a king getting the blessing of a Witch before a big battle? What book has the central figure consorting with a notorius whore, tax collectors, ect...? In what book does the prime deity expect his followers to go out and slaughter millions of people just because they are of a different race? In what book does that same deity NUKE an entire city?

Potter is fiction. As such it is optional. The Bible is not. It is half of the self revelation of the Creator God (the other half of course being the Traditional guarded, protected and passed on by His Church). To compare them too is inane. But you seem to enjoy being inane. So this will be my last correspondence with you. I cannot waste my time on inane discussions. Good day.

[k2blader]

Potter is fiction. As such it is optional. The Bible is not. It is half of the self revelation of the Creator God (the other half of course being the Traditional guarded, protected and passed on by His Church). To compare them is inane.

Agreed.

As a side note, I've thought for a while now that most of the passionate pro-Potter folks tend to display their more Christo-phobic qualities rather than responsibly discuss the issues at hand.

[Richard Kimball]

Didn't see it on the net. 60 Minutes did a fairly lengthly interview with her upon the release of the 4th Harry Potter book, which, as you remember, was the book that took it into the "Everybody knows your name" category and out of the specific genre mode. They did a pretty good puff piece on her, single mom, started writing books because she thought she could make a couple of dollars. Seemed like a nice lady. The part of the interview where they asked her about the witchcraft concerns jumped out at me, though. I'd almost bet 60 Minutes will re-run it sometime between now and the opening of the movie.

[r9etb]

"By contrast, the pro-Harry articles lack any serious reflection on the issues involved."

Straw man, based on "wonderful that they're reading." Sorry, but this guy's full of manure.

[Aquinasfan]

There is much more violence, sex, and MAGIC in the Bible than there is in the Potter books. Keep your kids grounded in reality and stop trying to spread hysteria.

I don't read the parts dealing with incest to my children. Some realities should be reserved until children are capable of ably dealing with them. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with the presentation of witchcraft in the Bible, since it is condemned.

Not so with the Potter series. In the Potter universe, witchcraft or wizardry can be used for good and evil purposes. This is what makes the stories so diabolically clever.

Of course, most children correctly see themselves as basically good. So, lacking instruction in the fact that witchcraft is an abomination to the Lord, they logically conclude that they can use wizardry to good ends just as Harry does.

Far fetched? Read the article where the author mentions that libraries set up witchcraft book displays next to the Potter displays to facilitate "one stop shopping."

[Kiwigal]

Among the young, an interest in witchcraft, sorcery, and allied occult activity is growing at an astonishing rate. Some libraries now put their occult section beside the Potter books, to make access easier for young readers. Thus, millions of children, including large numbers of Catholic children, are getting involved in spiritually and psychologically dangerous activity. Harry Potter provided the role model.

As a Catholic, does that concern you?

I am a Catholic, and that particular ploy by libraries, if that is in fact what is happening, concerns me. However, I doubt it was done with the blessing of JK Rowling.

As a Catholic growing up, I read the Narnia and Lord of the Rings Series many times over. When I was older I read somewhere that both these series had religious connotations. I went back and read the Narnia books, and it is very obvious what those are, as an adult. However, those parallels went straight over my head as a child.

I have also read the Harry Potter books, obviously only as an adult and not as a child. There is nothing like what you find in the Narnia series in Harry Potter. CS Lewis pretty much just re-wrote the bible in a fantasy world. JK Rowling is telling a fairy tale, with no hidden agenda.

The point I am trying to make is this. Adults tend to read a lot more into stories than children do. Give children some credit for their innocence. A child with a good religious education will learn at an early age what is real and what is not. Why should we scare children by telling them magic is bad when they are only small? In Harry Potter they read about magic - something they will have no doubt already heard about, and that they know is the stuff of fairy tales - in a way that makes it a cool story. But only a story. Why take the enjoyment out of their lives?

[Aquinasfan]

"By contrast, the pro-Harry articles lack any serious reflection on the issues involved."

Straw man, based on "wonderful that they're reading." Sorry, but this guy's full of manure.

QED

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

What about Colonel Potter? Is he OK?

LOL!!! Last time I saw him, he was walking on air.. Hawkeye, well he had turned to Voodoo Medicine, and had indoctrined Col. Potter into it. It wasn't a pretty sight.. sigh.....

[Aquinasfan]

Why take the enjoyment out of their lives?

Because they're playing with fire.

You make your point well. But children should learn very early to stay away from the occult, particularly because children's literature, movies and TV are so full of occult practices and imagery today. Things have changed a lot since I was a kid, 30 years ago.

You might want to go into the Catholic Answers on-line archives of past radio programs and listen to some of the shows with Fr. LeBar, the exorcist for NYC, I believe. He says that many times those who become posessed began with "innocent" play with a ouija board. I've heard many stories of children of very young age (kindergarten) "playing Harry Potter" and casting spells on each other. Of course, most children won't become posessed, but demonic oppression to varying degrees is very possible.

[Kiwigal]

I agree that children should stay away from the occult. However, I don't think that Harry Potter on its own is effecting a major trend to child-occult practices. There have always been, and always will be, people who try to attract youngsters with the allure of "magic". It is up to us as a society to ensure our children are properly educated about where the fairy tales stop and the danger begins. I don't see any danger in the Harry Potter stories. I think the problem is that their popularity has brought the issue of children and the occult to the forefront, in both positive and negative ways.

Sure makes a great debate too - after a short respite following the release of HP#4, it's back with a vengeance in time for the movie!