Al Qaeda's Balkan Links

Wall Street Journal Europe | November 1, 2001 | Marcia Christoff Kurop

[Voronin]

Now when the other side says it... Hardly so clear cut.

Hasan Cengic's Conspiratorial Logic

Stench of Terrorism

WE ARE LIVING THE "ISLAMIC DECLARATION"

Fifth Corps is Responsible for War Between Bosniaks

VRN

[Voronin]

Flagskis!

VRN

[Voronin]

Unfortunately, there are still people out there who insist on continuing to apply the 'Dukes of Hazzard' standard of logic and complexity to the Balkans.

VRN

[bluester]

The level of evidence is extremely low, that is why they keep on changing the rules and the standards.

As low as the evidence against Bin Laden and his involvement? Many things are very clear. Such as the position of Milosevic when the war crimes were comitted, his responsibility, his power over the army, his financing and supporting the various paramilitary units, the same units responsible for numerous crimes against civilians.

Let's put it this way, if it is apparent that Bin Laden was behind the WTC terrorist attacks, then it's even more obvious what Milosevic was behind. His links to Karadzic, Mladic, Martic are very well known. And the money he sent them to finance their "activities".

[Voronin]

As compared to the easy life Izetbegovic, Augosto Pinochet et al??? If you are going to be a war-criminal, make sure the USA and Europe back you first. The only rule.

The Brits are quite happy to let off old Nazis that live in their country etc. etc.

VRN

[Voronin]

Let's put it this way, if it is apparent that Bin Laden was behind the WTC terrorist attacks, then it's even more obvious what Milosevic was behind. His links to Karadzic, Mladic, Martic are very well known. And the money he sent them to finance their "activities".

Law of the Jugle then. Boy, have we come a long way.

VRN

[bluester]

I totally agree with your criticism and pointing toward the double standards at applying the rule of law. I have absolutely nothing to object as far as that is concerned. Cause you are right.

[Voronin]

That's wonderful then. I don't mind people having different opinions (otherwise life would be very boring), but the inability to apply the same standards and the moral trumpeting from hypocrits makes me sick (won't mention Robin 'ethical foreign policy' Cook and his buddies).

VRN

[bluester]

Law of the Jugle then. Boy, have we come a long way

Actually, I was talking about the links, financing and support that Milosevic himself had admitted. I am not sure you read the interview where he was explaining where all that federal money went. It apparently went into good hands, so that Serbia's national interests were being protected, according to him. And Mladic, Karadzic, Martic were those protectors. Law of the jungle? Just plain evidence Voronin, simple facts.

[Voronin]

Plain and simple as Tudjman backing his 'boys' in Bosnia and Izetbegovic taking Saudi and Kuwaiti money, arms and mujahideen. Of course, if Milosevic had been a sensible chap, he should have just cut off the Bosnian Serbs so that they could be carved up by the Croats and Bosnian moslems, like they did before, or was that just a made up story? I don't know if you read my links but the alternative scenario would have had everyone living under Izetbegovic's lovely radical Islamic state, or is that just pure propaganda and Izetbegovic is just a fun loving guy who meant no harm and really wasn't put in prison several times for his plans and actions to turn the whole of the SFRY into a radical moslem state Mr. Blubegovic? 'Nuff said.

VRN

[bluester]

Tudjman just as well. He is just not among us any more. And not just for supporting his "boys in Bosnia", but even more importantly for the crimes against Serb civilians during Oluja, and driving out more then 250.000 of them out of Croatia. He would have quite a lot to be held responsible for. Just as the generals that have been brought before Hague that were under his command.

[vooch]

Thanks for posting the facts w/ citations.......proving that poor Hoppie continues to defend Clinton's funding, supplying, training, and promotion of Bosnian & KLA Mujhadeen

Especially thanks to posting the article regarding the brutal Mujhadeen attacks on the moderate Muslims led by Fikret Abdic.

Humanitarian Warriors such as Hoplite supported the Mujhadeen V Corps campaign of pillage and destruction against the legally elected President of Bosnia Fikret Abdic. Hoplite continues to refuse to address the simple question Why didn't the Humanitarian Warriors support the moderate Fikret Adbic instead of the fundamentalist Iztbegovic ?

.............why ?

[Voronin]

But explain this to me Bluster: If Milosevic can be indicted as he is a the top of the Chain of Command, why is Izetbegovic still free and no ministers of the Tudjman regime indicted??? Is it at this points that certain governments plead 'national security' or that such actions could destabilize the balkans further. The Hague is a joke. If there was a way to set up a court that could try major world criminals, the Hague is the perfect way NOT to do it, and that is why it is a court for banana republics and why Senator Dole etc. says that a World Court will be DoA. That's not justice, but a media circus.

VRN

[Voronin]

Don't expect to get a sensible answer. In fact, it's not even worth the effort. For what it's worth, we have history on our side, we just may be all dead by the time something comprehensive and sensible is published in the West...

VRN

[bluester]

Hmm you have a point. If they can bring and indictment against Izetbegovic then I see no problem in bringing him before the Hague court. And if they can link him with the mujahadeen fighters, or even with Naser Oric and his forces, then there is nothing to argue about. Anyone responsible for war crimes should be held responsible.

And you can't say that the Hague court isn't doing their job. After all they have brought people of various nationalities before the court. You see it as a banana court, a media circus, I may not see it that way. Which doesn't mean that your criticism and objections aren't justified, but without this kind of court, there would be many people free with lot's of blood on their hands. Some still are. And don't say that they would be helf responsible at home, cause in many cases they clearly wouldn't be. The Croat generals that were eventually brought to Hague (with a lot of opposition in Croatia) would probably never be before a court, had there not been Hague and demands by the west towards Croatia to extradite them. Just as in Serbia. At least that's how I see it.

[Voronin]

It's quite simple. I suspect that you, like myself, would rather be tried in our own 'soverign' courts that at the Hauge. It does a job, but it is politically motivated and influenced by outside forces. The Western governments turn the evidence tap on and off at will. If you know anything about the acquis communautaire that your state and others wishing to join the European Union is about, one of the most fundamental parts is 'independence of the judiciary'. Under these standards, the Hague and it's methods wouldn't stand a chance.

Impartial and fair justice has to be seen to be done (not just told), which is not the case with the Hauge - if it were, then the nationalist of all those communities would have a much lower level of support. The fact that the Hauge does nothing to counter this and mirrors the colonial administration approach that is taken by persons such as Wolfgang Petritsch which means that it will never be accepted as impartial (and that's without even mentioning who payed/s, supplies, researches the whole Hauge thing). If the major powers refuse to accept a World Court, then why should any of the parties believe the treatises that the Hauge is impartial? Looks like a question of who yields the biggest stick, no?

VRN

[bluester]

I must say, it's very hard to disagree with you. Because in so many ways you are right. Personally, I have never made any illusions about the complete impartiality (and honesty)of such institutions, about the double standards, hypocrisy that is a common thing in international politics, even from a judicial point of view.

Had there been real justice, and intent to bring all sort of war criminals before a court, those of the last decade and those dating back to WW2, and post WW2, then you should have had both people like Arafat, Gadafi, Sharon, high UN officials that were in Bosnia, certain NATO people, some American politicians, some Slovenian (Mitja Ribicic, for post WW2 outerjudicial executions) and a bunch of people from all over the world with blood on their hands. All that is very true. And I am afraid that justice will never get all of them, even though they would deserve it.

[vooch]

Dude,

awesome, line of thinking re: Nasir Oric-Iztbegovic chain of command.......

Then you would also agree that Kfor commanders bear a measure of responsibility for the four fold increase in murder rate since they took control ?

[bluester]

Absolutely. Not even trying to stop criminals.

[bluester]

And not just the KFOR in Kosovo, but some high UN officials in Bosnia as well. Some of them even cooperated with Bosnian war criminals, drank alcohol together with Karadzic and Mladic, giving them a carto bianco for their crimes. Even Srebrenica is partly to be blamed on the UN. And then you have Lord Owen, and a couple of other lords who were involved. Man, I would loved to see them in front of the Hague court, and bringing witnesses to testify about their role. I am sure Karadzic would have much to say about them as well as about Milosevic. But then, that must be the reason why they don't really take great effort to arrest him. Hypocrits.

And where the hell is Naser Oric? He should be cleaning his laundry together with Slobo.