Reformation Day 2001

The Washington Times ^ | October 31, 2001 | Julia Duin

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

I have often sympathised with Brother Martin. Over the past decades, and especially during the disasterous reign of Paul VI, there were any number of times when I would have liked to sack Rome myself out of sheer exasperation.

Regardless of doctrinal considerations, the Reformation was only possible because it had the full support of the secular princes and numerous ecclesiastical renegades who wished to translate Church holdings into personal feifs. It was a disaster for Germany because it ensured that the German states would become the political clients of their belligerent neighbors, such as France and Sweden, and it ushered in over a century of religious strife that culminated in the virtual destruction of German civil life during the Thirty Years' War.

Without princely support, the Lutheran controversy would probably have been resolved in a series of scholastic disputations. But, once the princes saw an opportunity to profit, they all became good Evangelicals, even if they hadn't a clue about Luther's theology. His own protector, Frederick "the Wise" of Saxony, had one of the largest collections of indulgenced relics in Christendom, which he retained until his dying day despite Luther's acrimonious railing against the practice.

The new religion was fabricated at the universities and then foisted upon the unsuspecting peasantry by subterfuge. In this, as in many other things, the Vatican II "reformers" took their cue from the Wittenberg Gang.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Belloc fan? Your analysis closely mirrors his, if I remember correctly. I love Belloc. And this article is wonderful...really the Reformation in reverse.

See also this article, also by Tim Drake (author of book mentioned in this thread above):

Over 8000 Christian ministers learn---When Being Catholic Means Losing Everything You Love: Thread 2

[Charles Henrickson]

Can anyone explain the relationship between the Lutheran Church and Calvinism?

This may address, in a very brief way, some of your questions:

Differences between the Lutheran Church and Reformed churches

[patent]

Regardless of doctrinal considerations, the Reformation was only possible because it had the full support of the secular princes and numerous ecclesiastical renegades who wished to translate Church holdings into personal feifs.

So far as I know, all successful and lasting schisms have this one thing in common.

The new religion was fabricated at the universities and then foisted upon the unsuspecting peasantry by subterfuge. In this, as in many other things, the Vatican II "reformers" took their cue from the Wittenberg Gang.

I of course refer to them as the so-called spirit of V2 reformers, as very little that has happened in the last three decades was actually called for by V2.

Dominus Vobiscum

patent  +AMDG

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Catholic Dossier
ISSUES IN THE ROUND

Volume 7, No. 5         NON ENIM ERUBESCO EVANGELIUM. ROM 1:16   September/October 2001

EDITORIAL

Protest and Reform

Letters

ARTICLES
Who’s Who in the Reformation
Geoffrey Saint-Clark

Consensus on Justification:
How Far and How Much Farther?
James Akin

Charles Borromeo and the Reformation
Marvin R. O’Connell

Ignatius of Loyola: Counter-Reformation Saint
or Saint of the Catholic Reformation?
Vince Ryan

Why Only Catholicism
Can Make Protestantism Work
Mark Brumley

INTERVIEW
No Good Reason to Stand Apart
Father Richard John Neuhaus

COLUMNS
The Real Issues of the Reformation
James Hitchcock

Two Views of the Reformation
Gerard V. Bradley

Protestant Spain and Ireland?
Janet E. Smith

 Back Home Again
Anne Husted Burleigh

FEATURE
Graham Greene: A Puberty Girl
and a Grove of Crosses
Edwin Fussell

REVIEW
The Rhine Flows into the Tiber Again
Mark Dittman

Getting the Reformation Straight—Sort Of
Mark Brumley

FICTION
Give or Take
Ralph M. McInerny

CATHOLIC DOSSIER (ISSN 1087-402X) is published bi-monthly for $29.95 a year by
Ignatius Press, 2515 McAllister Street, San Francisco, CA 94118. Periodical paid at
San Francisco, CA and additional mailing offices.
POSTMASTER: Address Service Requested: CATHOLIC DOSSIER,
P.O. Box 591120, San Francisco, CA 94159-1120.
Ignatius Press Australasian Representative Office: P.O. Box 1165, Kenmore, Old 4069, Australia
Tel. 61-7-3375-9146 · Fax: 61-7-3375-9147 · E-mail: dixons@powerup.com.au

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

" . . . really the Reformation in reverse."

Now all we've got to do is get those confounded Hohenzollerns to return East Prussia to the Teutonic Knights.

I am somewhat of a Belloc fan, but I find his Francophilia a bit excessive, especially since he actualy has some good things to say about the French Revolution.

In the current discussion, the concentration has been almost exclusively on the theological aspects, with no reference to the political, social, and economic considerations. It may have been Belloc (or was it Chesterton?) who proposed that the Reformation was the revolution of the Haves against the Have-Nots, with the former converting institutions that had been at the disposal of the public into private holdings. How many manor houses in England bear the title "Abbey"? The expropriation of the monasteries and schools was a foretaste of the equally despicable practice of "enclosure."

So devoted Protestants can defend sola gratia and sola Scriptura to their hearts' content. The historical record demonstrates that the success of the Reformation was driven by sola terra and sola pecunia.

[Aquinasfan]

Christ established a church:

Matthew 16:17-19
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

And Christ's Church is the pillar and foundation of truth:

1 Timothy 3:14-16
 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

And this Church is a visible, discernable Church:

Matthew 16:17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Disagreements between followers of Christ are to be settled by the Church —a real, visible, discernable Church. The same Church that Christ founded.

[annalex]

That is precisely what I was looking for, thank you.

Do you know if the differences reflect on differences between Calvin and Luther, or did they develop historically?

[Charles Henrickson]

Do you know if the differences reflect on differences between Calvin and Luther, or did they develop historically?

The differences between the Lutheran Church and Calvinism are not just a matter of personal differences between Calvin and Luther. (Calvin was still a young man when Luther died.) And you had asked in your earlier post, "Is it substantial or concerns the style of worship and church administration?" The differences are substantial and not just stylistic. While Calvin did and said many things Luther would have agreed with, there is a different approach to theology at work in Calvin, and that shows in the theological results he produced.

The link I gave you briefly addresses a few of those differences. There is a mountain of weighty theological literature that could elaborate. I'm not sure what I would recommend on a lay level for reading on this subject. A good place to start in understanding Luther's basic theological thinking is his Small Catechism and Large Catechism.

[annalex]

So, it would be correct to say that (picking one issue out of several) the doctrine of double predestination would separate Luther from Calvin as individual thinkers, just as it separates the Lutherans form the Reformed?

[Charles Henrickson]

The basic problem underlying not only Calvin's "double predestination" view but also his view of the Sacraments, his Christology, etc., is his inability to live with the (healthy) tensions inherent in biblical teaching, i.e., paradoxical truths. It is due to placing Reason over God's Word, to some extent. That is an oversimplification, to be sure, but it gets at the basic problem.

Now I've got to sign off for a while (maybe twelve hours or so), due to pressing commitments.

[annalex]

inability to live with [...] paradoxical truths.

You've summed up my intuitive objection to Calvinism very well, thank you.