Our Galaxy Should Be Teeming With Civilizations, But Where Are They?

Project Phoenix ^ | 25 Oct 01 | Seth Shostak

[VaBthang4]

This whole thread is a waste of bandwidth.

"DEATH TO STUPID POSTS"

[RightWhale]

Thank you. You have pushed response to our serious discussion to over 300 posts. Never before has this topic received such sober and professional interest. Again, thank you for expressing your concern and advice.

[PatrickHenry]

Micro, no question. There's more "there" there, for one thing. For another thing, there's more "when" there: the smaller the faster, the bigger the slower. What do we care for the end of the universe?

I care about the end of the universe. But not too much, at least not now when we seem to have billions of years to go. I can see going micro for the final stage, to squeeze out some extra time, if there's no other solution. But I wouldn't take that route just yet.

[sadamico]

Ping

[longshadow]

Sneeze on a transmitter. Cough up a lunger on it. Sneeze again. Then once more. When the transmitter is well-coated, try to transmit in the wavelength you're looking for.

Sounds like a "Snott filter" to me....

;-)

[PatrickHenry]

Sounds like a "Snott filter" to me....

Egad, sir! Have you no shame? There are ladies lurking on this thread.

[longshadow]

Egad, sir! Have you no shame? There are ladies lurking on this thread.

Hey, I wasn't the one who brought up the topic of "Mucoids"!

[Joe Hadenuf]

And you are an idiot of astronomical proportions.

[#3Fan]

Sure!

[Vercingetorix]

"Where are they?" -- PatrickHenry

We are them. A colony of space aliens landed here to mine the earth. Tired of doing most of the work themselves they genetically re-engineered the ape-like creatures already wandering about by using some of their own DNA to convert the intractable savages into useful slaves. Unfortunately, they used too much of their own DNA so that the slave females became sexually irresistable to the space alien males. The aliens quickly succumbed to the temptation and their separate race died out. We are their illegitimate progeny. This probably happens on every inhabited planet they visit. Will they never learn?

[Joe Miner]

The galaxy is about 100,000 light years across.

And the kids in the backseat asking if we are almost there for that amount of time is the reason we haven't seen any aliens yet.

[PatrickHenry]

We are their illegitimate progeny.

The ultimate conclusion of Intelligent Design "theory". A planet full of bastards.

[PatrickHenry]

Anyway, I just remembered an old SF story, probably written in the early '60s, or maybe the '50s. Man has been colonizing the galaxy one planetary system at a time. Settlers develop each new world for a few generations, and when the new world's population is all up and running, it then sends colonists off for the next system, etc. Slow and steady. After a few million years of this, our distant descendants have expanded mankind's domain halfway around the galaxy, where a human exploration ship is startled to encounter an alien vessel, coming into human space from the other direction. In all the generations of mankind's expansion, these are the first aliens we've ever discovered. The aliens are strange looking, weird acting, have odd beliefs, etc.

The story ends up when the humans discover that the "aliens" are also humans, the descendants of those who started off from earth going in the opposite direction. Over thousands of generations, these branches of humans have gradually mutated into two different species. If I could remember the author, I'd dig it out and re-read it. It made an impression on me.

[Rockitz]

See posts #194 and #300. Maybe you can help tortoise out.

[Paulus Invictus]

Don't any of y'all know that Agent Mulder proved beyond any doubt that "they" are out there. Now what are we to believe since his contract was not renewed? (and I, for one, miss him--the new guy is NG but the chick is still lookin'good!)

[Vercingetorix]

"The story ends up when the humans discover that the "aliens" are also humans, the descendants of those who started off from earth going in the opposite direction. Over thousands of generations, these branches of humans have gradually mutated into two different species."

So they were unable to interbreed? Sounds like "Ring Species" from the northern latitudes where a continuous range with interbreeding all across the range is separated at the ends by an impenetrable geographical boundary (Atlantic Ocean). When individuals at each extreme are introduced to one another they are unable to breed successfully.

I think the alien sex with slave idea belongs to Zecharia Sitchin but he doesn't write science fiction (at least not intentionally).

[PatrickHenry]

So they were unable to interbreed?

I don't remember if the characters tried it (but it's instructive that you thought about it). As I recall, they were sufficiently different, physically, that the subject didn't arise. The story was written before DNA evidence was an issue.

Sounds like "Ring Species" from the northern latitudes where a continuous range with interbreeding all across the range is separated at the ends by an impenetrable geographical boundary (Atlantic Ocean). When individuals at each extreme are introduced to one another they are unable to breed successfully.

Good description of how two species differentiate, and why there would be no "intermediate transitional fossil" in such a case.

[UnChained]

...sufficient motive for beings to go to the trouble of traveling from star to star

Good idea. We can start making a list. it's hard to know what should be near the top of the list, but the motives of our American ancestors who emigrated from Europe [ and other continents as well] might be dredged up.

Our ancestors wanted to improve their own lives and that of their immediate offspring. There was no far sighted quest to explore for pure knowledge sake.

The problem with most motivation is that unless there is a faster than light propulsion system or unless the beings initiating space travel are extremely long lived then there is no chance of a payoff for any motivation. They would die long before the antiicipated benifit would occur.

[UnChained]

Warp engines? They may never exist. I beleive it wont be an engine at all. They will generate or find a window that one enters or steps into where it would only takes seconds to cross the galaxy. Sort of bending time and space. Like taking a long narrow rug and pushing two ends together and just stepping across from one end to the other end.

I which case the Fermi Paradox would indicate that either your advanced form of space travel may not exist or that if it does then there is no one who knows how to do it.