Israeli state terror has killed more than 800 this year

Sunday Business Post Ireland ^ | 21 October, 2001 | Sunday Business Post

[KLT]

You KLT accuse me of spewing hate, that is indeed rich. You and your Israeli first fellow travelers who spout their bigoted racist and anti-religious garbage adnauseam about all Arabs, Muslims and people of the Islamic faith should perhaps take care. In doing so you demonstrate your culpability in committing those very acts you accuse others of.

We don't have to spew any hate, the Muslim radicals hate enough for all of us....Come see the former WTC, and gaze with your own anti-semetic eyes!

[KLT]

I'm finished with your anti-semetic rambling....Why don't you just crawl back into your hole, because I won't answer any more of your ridiculous replies! You are an ignorant and small minded person. You are the one in denial, you fail to see what's right before your face. I have a feeling you have a little more interest in the Islam culture then you are leading on to! BYE DAMIAN!

[ThreeOfSeven]

Actually, you do. There already is a "Palestinian state" - it is called Jordan. Is there an inalienable right for the "Palestinians" living on the West Bank to have their own state separate from Jordan? On what basis? And if so, did they have that same right when that land was part of Jordan, or did that right magically arise after the 1967 war?

The population of Jordan is about 50% Palestinian. Most of them were either war refugees from Palestine or their descendants. The idea of a confederation of the West Bank with Jordan was tossed around but it didn't pan out. In line with the Oslo agreement, King Hussein renounced any Jordanian claim to the occupied territories in favor of a separate Palestinian state.

[The Electrician]

In line with the Oslo agreement, King Hussein renounced any Jordanian claim to the occupied territories in favor of a separate Palestinian state.

If you are going to hang your hat on the Oslo agreement, then why do you seemingly dismiss all of the violations of that agreement that have been committed by the PA in the years since? You seem to want to force Israel to live up to that agreement line by line, but give the PA a free pass to disregard any and all of it except for cherry-picking the parts that they like. Sorry, that is not how the world works...

[ThreeOfSeven]

I mentioned Oslo only because it was in the context of Oslo that King Hussein renounced Jordanian claims to the West Bank. Probably, neither side can be expected to provide a full, accurate, and unbiased account of violations in the occupied territories. Independent international observers and investigators would help to resolve conflicting claims, determine when violations occur and who committed them. The PA has asked for them but Israel is stonewalling.

[KLT]

Double standard? I think the answer is self evident.

Who blew us up? Was it Israel? Your the one with a double standard!

Ping MUD and Tonkin! Check out this guys replies, is he insane?

[KLT]

You relent, and I will reciprocate.

Relent what? My opinion? Tell you I think you're right? I don't think so...Nobody is impressed with your antisemetic replies. I will relent replying, if you stop posting your crap.

[monkeyshine]

The history of that area is marked by regrettable violence by both sides. It should be recalled that "transfer" of Palestinians was a prime goal of the zionist founders of Israel. They couldn't achieve a Jewish state while a non-Jewish Palestinian Arab majority remained.

This is untrue. There may be some who advocated this, just like there are some today. But you cannot say that ALL the founders believed this. I recently put up a giant list of quotes proving exactly the opposite -- that many Zionist founders did everything they could to convince the Palestinians to stay.

But as you said "the history..is market by violence by both sides". A transfer viewpoint conceded that the two sides cannot live together. It is not necessarily a 'racist' view it's just an acceptance of what the last 53 years has proven -- that the two sides cannot get along. Not that I agree or think that they could never get along. Furthermore a transfer viewpoint had recent precedent in other British colony - India - who transferred millions more people to create Pakistan. The "red herring" is saying the transfer idea, pre 1948, was a crazy idea. It had just recenly been done with some success.

The Palestinian people can only begin to exercise self-determination after Israel relaxes its stifling grip.

Also not true. The Palestinian people can begin to behave like the Jews did when the Britished announced the partition: They began to set up municipalities, police, the seat of government, election procedures, a constitution. The Palestinians currently have a lot of this in place (except for a decent constitution) (and, Israel has cooperated with them in getting these types of services up) but the problem is that Arafat is in charge of it all. They could announce plans and transfer of power to cover the eventuality which is bound to occur -- even Sharon concedes that there will indeed be a new nation called Palestine. So it's time for them to cool the violence and begin to build up their own society.

The world will be mightily disappointed to see this 53 year project fail. And it will fail unless serious reforms are put in place. But although the world may be disappointed, you and I and they know that the world isn't going to do any more for the Palestinians than what they are willing to do for themselves.

[monkeyshine]

The premise of your question is bogus. The real question you should be asking is was the girl deliberately targeted?

I don't believe she was deliberately targeted. Terrorists target civilians intentionally. That is why they are terrorists. Collateral damage, as sad and unfortunate as it is, is not terrorism. I realize it makes no difference to the dead and little difference to the bereaved, but nevertheless there is a significant difference that is just plain obvious.

[bribriagain]

Then get the Jews out of illegally occupied territories. Problem solved.

[bribriagain]

You really are self delusional. Ever read a paper, veronica? The reality is out there. Deal with it.

[monkeyshine]

Is that the girl? It is sad that she is dead. It will be very hard to convince me that that girl was killed by a tank shell.

[monkeyshine]

That's exactly right. Jordan killed 20,000 Palestinians in a matter of weeks to put down that uprising. The Hashemites were the traditional keepers of the Muslim holy sites Mecca and Medina. They have the support of a lot of tribes in Saudi Arabia to this day. Nevertheless, the Saudis gained control and are wealthy beyond their dreams... while the Hashemites are just wealhty, but in charge of a very poor country with few natural resources. The Hashemites do not have a lot of natural alliances inside Jordan as they did/do in Saudi Arabia, and they have always had a very tenuous control over the nation. They are easy prey for Syria or Iraq -- who have just signed a defense treaty -- which is why it is believed that Israel and Jordan have signed a secret defense treaty as well. Syria and Iraq both have eyes on Jordan, although there is really not much there to take. Jordan has apx $3000 per capita annual income. By comparison, Israel has apx $19,00 per capita annual income which is even larger than several European nations.

[KLT]

Relent your anti-Semitc adhominem Tar Baby attacks was the question O'Dense one. But it is self evident you have this strange S&M fetish for returning to the scene of your crimes only to be the recipient of further humiliation and punishment.

You are one stubborn SOB....You are the one that's being humiliated damian, most everyone thinks you're not all there. No I'm not into some strange S&M fetish, you are just so nasty and mean. Hopefully, you won't last long here.

[ThinkNot]

Hi Belle.

[sobieski]

The British announced Partition, and the Palmach and Stern Gang gave their opinions.