Posted on 10/23/2001 4:26:00 PM PDT by Incorrigible
Edited on 05/07/2004 7:41:14 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Of course, I never made such an assertion. In fact, many times in this forum I have spoken out forcefully against such judgements on anyone's part.
Such judgements are anti-scriptural.
Read Job, and Jesus' reply to those who had the proud, self righteous temerity to judge those upon whom a certain tower had fallen...
But, having said that, it doesn't change the fact that your assertion that Islamists and Christians are claiming the same thing is wrong headed in the extreme.
There are distictions in the two positions that you are failing to see that are huge.
I'll have to read your reply in the am...time for work...but you have fallen into a trap in your thinking. Remember, the ability to make distinctions is the sign of a sane, rational human being.
In fact, while war waged round the war, we saw no war here on U.S. soil aside from the terrible tragedy of Pearl Harbor. Our entrance into the European theater was at our choosing, not because Hitler dropped a few bombs over New York City. America was very blessed during WWII, and we proved to be a blessing to many other nations--even our enemies, whom we helped rebuild.
Will we be able to say the same this time?
Both..... ahhhh, but there is a huge difference. According to the Islamic kooks of the world, they believe that they have the right to act as judge, jury and executioner on us.
Christians, rather, look up and ask, "God, could this possibly be your judgment against us?"
If you can't see the difference...........
Tell me about it!
Can you imagine being in the hospital and having one of these so-called "Christians" come to visit and then proceeed to comfort you with a list all the sins they believe you are being punished for??
With "friends" like these, who needs Bin Laden or terrorists?
Chastening, however, is reserved to the believer. Hebrews 12 is abundantly clear on that point. " For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." (Heb 12:6). But those who are not his sons, who have not yet obeyed the Gospel, are not yet chastened-- they are not sons, but rather "bastards" as the King James puts it in Heb 12:7.
Both..... ahhhh, but there is a huge difference. According to the Islamic kooks of the world, they believe that they have the right to act as judge, jury and executioner on us.
History is full of Christian fanatics who believe they "they have the right to act as judge, jury and executioner on us."
This is simply the next step down the road to religious extremism.
But that wasn't my comparison, nor was it my point.
Christians, rather, look up and ask, "God, could this possibly be your judgment against us?"
If you can't see the difference...........
Are you trying to make me laugh on purpose or what?
The original "letter" as well as most of the similar responses here did NOT "look up and ask" if this could be God's judgement against "them" at all....
BUT rather looked down and pointed their fingers at all the sinful things other people were doing that they believed brought God's judgement.
The spirit in which these things are stated is not one of personal conviction at all (as you claim) but rather one of self-righteous judgement on others.
And I can certainly tell the difference.
I am not wrong at all and can easily document my claim.
I'll say it again;
...BOTH claim that the slaughter of Sept 11 is really God judging America ...and go on to name their own personal list of grievances.
There are distictions in the two positions that you are failing to see that are huge.
I see them but they have no bearing whatsoever on my statement.
I'll have to read your reply in the am...time for work...but you have fallen into a trap in your thinking. Remember, the ability to make distinctions is the sign of a sane, rational human being.
LOL. If you say so.
Mark 12:41-44: And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
We can't just say we (American Christians) are better because we give more money. The men in the photo below are risking their lives to be reading these Bibles. The Sudanese Bible translator was executed by Muslims for translating the Bible.
I think those men really are hungry for the word of God. I've read in Africa people run to get the Bibles. Are we American Christians as hungry for God as they are or do many of us go to church to be entertained? There are Americans who call themselves Christians and say they don't have time to even look at the Made In China labels or they choose to buy cheap consumer goods because they want to save the money while they acknowledge that most of the Chinese slave labor are their Christian brothers and sisters. I'm not talking about ignorant Christians; I'm talking about Christians who don't want to take the time to stop supporting persecution of Christians with their dollars. Have you noticed the Christian merchandise now being made in China?
AMEN, Brother!
While we're FAR from "Perfect," This Nation has done "God's Work" FAR more consistently than ANY OTHER nation in recorded History!
If some "Vengeful Deity" wishes us harm, so be it!
If "america" "doesn't 'measure up,'" WHO DOES??
If the "Deity" MOST Americans respect expects us to be "better than we are," we understand this; if we are to be "punished" for our current behavior relative to our "fellow man," SOMEONE isn't paying attention!
BAD as we might be, We're a H+LL of a lot better than 99% of our "fellow man!"
ANY "DEITY" which would ignore/punish US, & NOT demolish our "Tormentors" isn't worth much respect!
OF COURSE "God Blesses America!!"--How could there be any doubt!
Doc
Actually I never said anything about America's benevolence in "terms of following Christ"...specifically.
But now that you mention it, along with providing more aid, food and assistance in disasters to others than any other nation, we also send more Christian ministries around the world...
Remember when Jesus said that the woman who dropped in two mites had given more because she gave all that she had?
Sure...but having poor people send 2 cents to help starving Rwandans will still not save their lives. It was the enormous gifts from the U.S. that actually did any good for the people who needed the help.
I think the point Jesus was making about the widow's two mites was regarding giving and personal sacrifice when it come to the individual's committment.
We can't just say we (American Christians) are better because we give more money. The men in the photo below are risking their lives to be reading these Bibles. The Sudanese Bible translator was executed by Muslims for translating the Bible.
There have been far more American missionaries executed for their work than any others.
In any case my argument was not in about who is a better Christian than another.
But to those who wanted claim America was being punished for it's wickedness in the terror attacks, I was presenting the proof that when it comes to charity, human empathy and benevolence...in real terms that actually mean anything to other nations...America is by far the most remarkable and good nation in the history of the world.
The idea that some people want to point their self righteous fingers and blame the victim for these horrendous Sept 11 attacks..is absolutely ignorant and vulgar.
I don't think the writer's statements in any way resemble Jerry Falwell's. I think Jerry Fallwell pointing out sins of the unsaved without pointing out sins of the church was unbiblical, but I've been accused of blaming the victims because I agree with everything Don Feder says in his article Invoking God or everything Rev. Steve M. Schlissel says in Shaken and Stirred.
Rev. Schlissel speaking: Some Christians think it will be easy to take back ground for Christ in the wake of this fiasco. This is naïve. People are not looking to Christ. Oh, they are ready to use the church, like Rocky Balboa did on the way to his championship fight: he stopped at the priest’s apartment and yelled to his third-floor window, “Father, t’row me down a blessin’.” In the short term we well may see a return to “religious” exercises. But is that a return to Christ and His Word?
I shake because we seem not to know how to speak with humility before the God of the Bible. I shake because the airwaves have been filled with unending and hyperbolic bravado, without the slightest hint that a tragedy of this proportion would be a perfect occasion for self-examination. I shake because the meaning of the events is being interpreted for the masses by the non-reflective talking heads. I shake because Americans want immediate answers to life’s most difficult questions, and they think they have been given the answers by images and emotions. I shake because we don’t know the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Brotherhood of Man. ..
I SHAKE FOR THE CHURCH. for some of these same reasons. We have a church today that does not know where to stand. It does not know that it ought to look in the mirror; it is not even sure where the mirror is. The Bible is the mirror (James 1:22-25), not the television. One cannot gain insight into our current crisis, nor understand the opportunities it may present, by feeding on scraps of diced information supplied by anti-Christian newsroom editors. We’re already being made to look like oddballs because our stomachs turn at the ecumenical services we are supposed to embrace.
Me speaking again: As I said before September 11, the church needs to fear God more than it fears the world.
This nation is given to us by God and we who call ourselves Christians need to start learning some humility, instead many talk as if He should thank us.
Ignorance was bliss when my prayer life consisted of whining to God about living in a small apartment or being misunderstood or hating my job; etc., etc. I'm sorry but it shames me that there are Christian brothers and sisters of other countries who can be joyful and grateful to God for the little that they have and we Christians think we are saving the world by sending Christian tv shows by satellite to the little people who aren't as rich as we are. One of those programs with a famous televangelist was promoting the teaching that Christians should have three cars, including a Mercedes, in their garage. There's nothing wrong with prosperity if it is God's will for us, but do we love Jesus enough to keep his commandments? Those were His words not mine. Or do we only remember Him when the going gets rough and demand our blessings because we are Americans.
There was a poll of Christians done by a Christian scholar recently and I believe the figures were 25% of people who called themselves born again Christians agreed with abortion and homosexual, divorce is higher in the church than without and adultery is almost matching that of the world outside the church. Our churches no longer preach obedience and repentance and without that we are victims of doctrinal confusion.
I'm talking here about the condition of the church, the backbone of America.
Ouch!
Good night (all).
No, I hadn't. But now that mention it will check it out. Thanks.
I duunno. Actually, they look like they're hungry for the word period.
These stupid judgements against the US by the sanctimonious are as disgusting as the ones from the America-hating Marxists.
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