IRA in arms breakthrough

BBC ^ | 23rd Oct 2001 | BBC

[kidd]

I am probably quite incorrect, as you noted. But if this started 20 years ago, then Clinton has little to do with this development either.

[Int]

So what does the IRA have? Here's what the Irish Times estimates:

• 650 AK47/AKM assault rifles;

• 36 Armalite AR-15 assault rifles;

• 2 Barret M82A1 sniper rifles;

• 60 Webley .455 revolvers;

• 20 12.7 x 107mm DshK heavy machine guns;

• 12 7.62mm FN MAG machine guns;

• 6 LPO-50 flamethrowers;

• 40 RPG-7 rocket launchers;

• 1 SAM-7 surface-to-air missile;

• 600 bomb detonators;

• 3 tons of Semtex plastic explosives

[NH Liberty]

"so if it costs a ton of $$$ to stay there, and they don't really want to be there, and polls show that blokes back home across the pond don't want to be a part of that mess anymore, please explain why they haven't packed up and gone home post haste."

Because many (most?) of the people who live there wish to remain part of the UK.

[Bob Burnett]

The amazing thing about this thread is not once do we read about 'kill 'em/ nuke 'em', the validity of targeted killing, and nasty rag-heads. And notice also, the IRA are, to some, the good terrorists, their terrorism being so focused, so controlled. Especially amusing was the talk about only limited innocent victims by the IRA! Everyone was polite and didn't bring up the attempted killing of Margaret Thatcher and her government or the murder of Lord Mountbatten. Wouldn't Sharon have become absolutely unglued were that to have happened to his people?

Lots of erudite and profound understanding of positions on both sides which was very nice. Lots of tut-tut my cause is better than your cause and cluck-cluck my religion is better than yours.

The enlightened discussion would even go back to our revolution, and thank heavens nobody pulled out the infamous bibical map to choke off rational debate.

But when it comes to Israel vs. Palestinians notice how things revert back to black and white primeval orgasms of simple minded and racist hate against Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims.

What a difference when the antagonists are Western.

[kidd]

No problem, my friend. I'm Irish-Catholic myself and I am very sympathetic towards IRA causes, but am rarely in agreement with their methods. Your posts are more of an education for me.

[mcollins]

Its been 80 freeking years. We won the war. Now lets accept the peace treaty.

You dont see French terrorists trying to get back the channel isles. You dont see German terrorists trying to get back Metz and Strasbourg.

Its over.

[Norn Iron]

A lot of the IRA material came from Libya, some from 'friends' in the USA.

[Norn Iron]

Some reports suggest that Clinton's role may have been more than just diplomatic.

American special service personnel arrived at the Chinook crash site on Kintyre in June 1994 before their British counterparts. 25 of NI's top security personnel perished in the crash. When asked why they were there the answer given was: "We are looking for something that belongs to us".

Was the Chinook sabotaged as the price of an IRA ceasefire? It followed a few weeks later.

There are strong similarities between this crash and the one in which Secretary Brown perished in two years later in Croatia.

[Norn Iron]

A wonderful republican fantasy - Protestant blood.

Republicans moved on decommissioning solely because Haass kicked ass. It wasn't very clever of Gerry Kelly to tell Haass to get stuffed awhile back!

[Norn Iron]

One of the secret meetings was held on November 5, 1993.

[rockfish59]

i'll believe there'll be peace in ireland when:

this happens

[slhill]

Still convinced it's only a "so-called" breakthrough? Jeez, whaddya want, that the PIRA is going to lead CNN to all its weapons dumps, then offer itself up for handcuffs? Please try and look on the bright side. If Mr Trimble and Mr Adams have both found something to smile about, the rest of us can as well...

[slhill]

Well, it's possible that the British gov't views Northern Ireland as the last vestiges of its Empire and won't let go for that reason, but it's a pretty odd scenario. This gov't is not, after all, a gov't widely believed to have a huge attachment to history, precedent and tradition. If Blair could get more votes through helping to end the conflict, then that's what he'd do. And of course, that's what he's done. But he won't win votes by letting a civil war develop. As for Scotland -- if a majority of Scots wanted to end their ties to England, it would happen. But they don't. Scottish nationalism is an important, but not an overwhelming, force in Scottish politics.

[slhill]

Is that all? I'd have thought they had a lot more than that. Just goes to show... of course, if (and pray God they won't) things took a turn for the bloodier, then it wouldn't be *that* tough for the IRA to re-arm. The most important decommissioning that can happen is that the paramilitaries feel that negotiating pays more dividends than bombing. Here's hoping.

[slhill]

Thanks for this long, interesting and reasonable post, which I thought provided some useful speculations as to the motivations behind the British government's behaviour. I think that your descriptions of the motivations of the political parties are very interesting -- and that two of the forces behind the moves to peace have been the increasing marginalisation of the Tory party, and Tony's conviction that he can make advances in England if he can deliver a settlement in NI.