Rethinking America: What Made It Great?

actually, that's not really a precise analysis of de Tocqueville. While it's true that he said that america was a great nation because it was a good nation, and that if it ever ceased to be good it would also cease to be great....

Well, actually, he didn't say that America was great because she was 'good' either....That was someone else whose words have been attributed to Tocqueville so often that we find leaders using them as authentic Tocqueville.

It is clear, however, that Tocqueville recognized the roots of American liberty as being firmly grounded in the spirit of liberty inherent in a people deeply influenced by their religious beliefs.

If we don't like Tocqueville's analysis, then perhaps an even earlier passage from Edmund Burke's 1775 Speech to the British Parliament on "Conciliation with the Colonies" might say it as clearly:

"In this character of the Americans a love of freedom is the predominating feature which marks and distinguishes the whole....Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found. Liberty inheres in some sensible object; and every nation has formed to itself some favourite point, which by way of eminence becomes the criterion of their happiness....

"Religion, always a principle of energy, in this new people is no way worn out or impaired; and their mode of professing it is also one main cause of this free spirit. The people are Protestants, and of that kind which is the most adverse to all implicit submission of mind and opinion. This is a persuasion not only favourable to liberty, but built upon it....This religion, under a variety of denominations agreeing in nothing but in the communion of the spirit of libety, is predominant in most of the northern provinces....and these people of the southern colonies ar much more strongly and with a higher and more stubborn spirit attached to liberty than those to the northward...."

This religion, under a variety of denominations agreeing in nothing but in the communion of the spirit of libety, is predominant in most of the northern provinces....and these people of the southern colonies ar much more strongly and with a higher and more stubborn spirit attached to liberty than those to the northward...."

Sorry! Didn't proof carefully. Please correct the above passage, with the following correction of typos:

This religion, under a variety of denominations agreeing in nothing but in the communion of the spirit of liberty, is predominant in most of the northern provinces....and these people of the southern colonies are much more strongly and with a higher and more stubborn spirit attached to liberty than those to the northward...."

bump

What your father and those students did wasn't wrong. Your father didn't act as a teacher (i.e. state official) because the prayer meeting was before school and that meeting wasn't mandatory. In my eyes those parents who complained are victims of that widespread misconception that prayer (and religion) in school is unconstituational. Go ask some people on the street if prayer in school is allowed and I'm pretty shure most of them will say no. But that's wrong, only state mandated religion is verboten. If that problem still persists just print that page from the ACLU website and hand it out to those parents and the principal. That should silence them at once and it shouldn't even be necessary to involve the ACLU (I don't know why they didn't answer, maybe there was some asshole on the phone, perhaps they also need a copy of that page from their own website ;-).

Those religious 'trappings' were removed because leaving them there would mean that the state is supporting a religion (of course if those trappings were some Wiccan symbols or some Sure from the Qur'an they would also have been removed). I'm sure it's no problem to put some religous trappings on your workplace (cubicle, desk, etc.) and they shouldn't be more unconstitutional than the photograph of your wife/husband/children you put there too. You are also allowed to wear religious symbols and in that case people can see that it is your opinion but if those symbols cannot be linked to a particular person (because they are in the lobby or elevator) it is automatically the 'opinion' of the state and that's not allowed because a secular state should be neutral to religion.
Nativity displays are religious in nature because it depicts the birth of Jesus but that should be obvious. The tree isn't really part of the original Christmas canon but it's a rather new invention. Of course one can say it's only displayed on Christmas and nitpick that it's therefore a religious symbol but I have no problems with that. A tree is a neutral object and with religiously neutral decoration it shouldn't be a big problem.

Excellent article...thanks for the bump! :)

BIG Thanks. J

See reply 80 for something 'new' I learned from my Texas FReeper FRiend Fiddlstix. J

You're welcome J

BTTTT....

How did I miss this? Must have been busy with the chicken and waffles. Add me to that funky list, por favor.

People are REALLY getting into this article...aren't they?

I can't tell who's making more noise here...those who agree with it or those who want to label Dottie a spiritual terrorist (pffft on them, as long as we're being so open and free with our opinions, which is GOOD!).

Well...no-one here seems BORED, anyway...LOL!!!

Thanks, Mercuria.

- Does the U.S. Gov't. 'regulate' churches with requirements for 401(c) compliance?
- Why are churches effectively gagged by the 'separation of church and state' rules regarding political activity ?

Good Article -- Thanks!