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Why torture is sometimes good
National review Online ^ | Oct 12, 2001 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 10/22/2001 3:55:35 AM PDT by spycatcher

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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: one_particular_harbour
Wonder if there is any way of convincing you of anything?

Certainly. You've convinced me you're a posturing windbag. You are one whether the story is true or not.

Chorus: "Two people had to hold me back from beating the snot out of him."

42 posted on 10/22/2001 9:00:15 AM PDT by Ratatoskr
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To: wretchard
I just don't like the precedent this will set.
43 posted on 10/22/2001 12:16:44 PM PDT by Junior
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To: Junior
Don't forget about the precedent set on 9/11, and the precedent of inhalation anthrax through the mail system.

If smallpox is next we may not be around to debate it.

44 posted on 10/22/2001 6:11:18 PM PDT by spycatcher
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To: Tax Government
Your anti-torture sentiments are quaint.

These guys gave up any right to being treated like humans when they fried and crushed 6,000 people in an office building

I say kill them, once you get what you want. After they tel you who their accomplices are, kill them. And then kill the families of the terrorists, so that the very idea of of being a terrorist has such a stigma that no one will ever want to do it.

TG, you fail to see that there is no grey area. This is not a post-modern academic argument.

If you think what I have proposed is extreme, let me tell you: that's what the terrorists want to do to you.

45 posted on 10/22/2001 8:58:03 PM PDT by IncPen
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To: WindMinstrel
From this article...

"There's no doubt that torturing terrorists and their associates for information works. In 1995, Philippine intelligence agents tortured Abdul Hakim Murad, whom they arrested after he blew up his apartment making bombs. The agents threw a chair at Murad's head, broke his ribs, forced water into his mouth, and put cigarettes out on his genitals, but Murad didn't talk until agents masquerading as the Mossad threatened to take him back to Israel for some real questioning. Murad named names. His confession included details of a plot to kill Pope John Paul II, as well as plots to crash 11 U.S. airliners into the ocean and to fly an airplane into the CIA headquarters in Langley, Va. His co-conspirator Ramzi Yousef was later convicted for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Similarly unappealing methods helped the CIA uncover the millennium bomb plot of 1999, after al-Qaida terrorists were questioned in Egypt and Jordan."

From what I understand, most US POW's will and have talked under torture without shame. The ones who end up despised by peers are the ones who simply tell everything when asked. Not sure how this compares with your training but here's the CIA torture manual

46 posted on 10/23/2001 6:25:49 AM PDT by spycatcher
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To: one_particular_harbour; LaBelleDameSansMerci; Tax Government; Ratatoskr
see above post for results of recent torture
47 posted on 10/23/2001 6:31:12 AM PDT by spycatcher
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To: NewAmsterdam
You gotta read this article. Tell me we don't have a nazi-esque fifth column operating in certain so-called "conservative" political journals in the U.S.
48 posted on 10/23/2001 6:49:05 PM PDT by Zviadist
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To: Tax Government
Torture also produces unreliable evidence and/or leads. I suppose one could create a hypothetical wherein torture is justified. I have not seen any evidence that such a hypothetical is about to be played out in reality. Hence, no on torture.
49 posted on 10/23/2001 6:56:01 PM PDT by HENRYADAMS
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To: spycatcher
One flew east.
One flew west.
One flew over the cuckoo's nest.

---max

50 posted on 10/23/2001 7:29:37 PM PDT by max61
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To: max61
One flew north.
One flew south.
One flew over the cuckoo's mouth. ---spy
51 posted on 10/23/2001 8:21:42 PM PDT by spycatcher
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To: spycatcher
bump
52 posted on 10/23/2001 9:47:51 PM PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: spycatcher
bump
53 posted on 10/23/2001 9:48:35 PM PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Fredgoblu
Torture of terrorists is inherently good-in-itself.
54 posted on 10/23/2001 9:49:53 PM PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: spycatcher
Torture is against the law in Israel (we can't say the same about most, if not all, of her neighbors). But Israel's Supreme Court grants an exception, the so-called "ticking bomb" excuse.

In September 99 the Israel Suprume Court said NO to the "ticking bomb" excuse. All forms of torture are illegal without exception. However, an interrogator can plead "ticking bomb" and take his chances with the court. JUDGEMENT HERE

55 posted on 10/26/2001 7:54:06 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: anapikoros
Thanks for the good info
56 posted on 10/26/2001 7:56:06 AM PDT by spycatcher
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To: spycatcher
Sorry, no support for torture here, but I don't consider 'truth serum' to be torture and think it should be an option in specific circumstances.
57 posted on 10/26/2001 8:07:22 AM PDT by Grig
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To: Grig
Unfortunately "truth serum" is not quite as reliable as Hollywood has made out.

But let me ask you in the event of someone close to you having been kidnapped and the police have one of the kidnappers who know where they hostage is being held but won't talk even after truth serum has been tried.

What do you suggest next given that there is no way the kidnapper's demands can be met.

58 posted on 10/27/2001 6:32:40 AM PDT by anapikoros
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