Posted on 10/18/2001 10:02:07 PM PDT by super175
Great, very concise.
In Quotations of Chairman Mao, the first sentence is "the core power leading our cause is the communist party".
Sun's KMT was formed like Lenin's party with him being the center of the party. Anyone against him was against "revolution" and should be purged.
Actually the Qing adapted to Han culture very quickly. They spoke Chinese, appointed Han officials and worshipped Han ancestors. When Qing emperor surrenderred power to ROC, an agreemnent was signed to protect the royal family and the Forbidden City remained to be the royal family's property. But the KMT treated them badly after it seized power. The family memebers were forced to leave the palace and many of them became homeless. That's why I said Sun was kind of a racist.
Right. The cultural revolution is kind of like a coup in which Mao used red guards to overthrow the party's leadership in order to recover his power (he gave up presidency to Liu Shaoqi after he failed to achieve the goals of Great Leap Forward). Mao was not a traditional Chinese emperor because Mao could do anything against any rules.
ABSOLUTELY! To supposes that there were not communists within the American government at the time is VERY naive!
1911 Revolution in China needed 3 stages to complete it and China never completed the 1st stage. Dr. Sun had a complete plan but just like any other revolution, people are afraid of changes. Look at Russia and CCP, revolution without good planning ended up a huge mess. China had a plan but from a 3000 year feudalistic society, a lot of people just could not accept it. Besides that, very few people even studied Dr. Sun's plan.
IMHO, Chiang ended the first stage too soon, 'military rule', because of pressure from war-lords, US and other foreign countries. As soon as the 'military-rule' stopped, communists and war-lords became active again and the rest of that is history.
Back in Taiwan Chiang restored a partial 'military-rule' but that was not acceptable by western standard. Anyhow, it kept Taiwan alive and grew in the most critical first 30 years after 1949 and Taiwan earned world respect.
Now Taiwan is a 100% democratic goverment but look at it, what a laughing stock of the world. More than 1/2 of politicians have some connections with the 'Black Money' and 'organized Crimes'. KMT, DPP and New Party are all the same, politicians work for themselves, not the people and country.
BTW, The 2nd stage: 'teaching and training of democracy' stage
The 3rd stage: 'democratic society'.
There is no set timetable for each stage and it really depends on the situation of the society.
I must however interject one point you ALL seem to be unaware of and that is that the only thing Karl Marx ever researched was the inside of a whisky bottle while his own children were, quite literally, dying of starvation!
The "Communist Manefesto" is, in fact, almost entirely the work of one Frederick Engels who, as the son of a very wealthy British industrialist, could not be to openly associated with such utopian dream world drival lest his father shut off his supply of CAPITOL!
Super175 you are, for the most part, on point in what you have said here!
Dr. Sun warned China that Russia was a great threat to China long before 1911. Chiang was so afraid of Russia's aggression he setup every way to defend China from Russia.
As for Chiang's son married a Russian lady I'll said it was a great Love Story. Love has no race, nationality and in today's world, even sex boundaries.
I knew few people's grand mothers are Russians. Chinese call them "White Russians" because they are Russia's royal and noble families escaped to China after Russia's revolution.
I don't have to "study" his paln because there have been historic facts out there. Sun tried ten times to resort to force to overthorw the ROC government in Beijing which was elected by the parliment.
>>As soon as the 'military-rule' stopped, communists and war-lords became active again and the rest of that is history.
That's the pretext for dictorship. Chiang was also a warlord who believed "power comes from the barrel of a gun".
>>Back in Taiwan Chiang restored a partial 'military-rule' but that was not acceptable by western standard. Anyhow, it kept Taiwan alive and grew in the most critical first 30 years after 1949 and Taiwan earned world respect.
So you are explaining to me the KMT's dictatorship was GOOD dictatorship, right?
>>Now Taiwan is a 100% democratic goverment but look at it, what a laughing stock of the world.
So the democracy in Taiwan is a BAD democracy. Maybe the CCP's "people democratic dictatorship" will sovle the problem.
>>There is no set timetable for each stage and it really depends on the situation of the society.
That's why I don't see any difference between the KMT and the CCP. The CCP is now talking about the same thing.
Yes, I have.
>>Dr. Sun warned China that Russia was a great threat to China long before 1911.
But Sun also said Russia was the teacher for the Chinese revolution at the same time.
>>Chiang was so afraid of Russia's aggression he setup every way to defend China from Russia.
I can't find any facts that Chiang took serious actions to prevent Russian INVASION. I don't know on what basis Chiang would think Russia, instead of Japan, would invade China at that period of time. Doesn't make sense.
>>As for Chiang's son married a Russian lady I'll said it was a great Love Story. Love has no race, nationality and in today's world, even sex boundaries.
Yeah, the marriage of Adolf Hitler to Eva Braune was also a love story. So what? The fact is Chiang's son was a Russian communist party member. He was educated in the Lenin-style party school and military academy.
>>I knew few people's grand mothers are Russians. Chinese call them "White Russians" because they are Russia's royal and noble families escaped to China after Russia's revolution.
The wife of Chiang's son is not a "white Russian", but a red Russian, daughter of a working class family which was thought to be the foundation of the Bolshevic regime.
So you are saying Yuan Shi Kai was elected?
The reality, if that is what we really want to look at is that the KMT never had a chance to rule. They got to rule a battle royale, but that was it. They never took over all of China and were technically still at war with other factions within China, including the Communists for a long time; and still are.
The only chance the KMT had to really rule was on Taiwan, after 1949. There, on Taiwan it shows "reality" sort of...namely a small struggling island with help from the US, who is on the edge of the world, next door to a Communist giant who wants to crush them, right in the middle of the Cold War. The Cold War put a whole lot of plans on hold.
After Chiang's death, it shows that the people were really ready to move along into the next phases. It also shows that those desires and teachings were there. It also shows that the plan was not really a 3 point plan 1. Conquer 2. Teach. 3. Democracy, but more like a 10 point plan...
Part of the problem here is Sun did not envision a Communist uprising that happened in the fashion that it did, nor did he take into account the Cold War. Just like the old Navy SEAL saying, "No plan survives first contact". Now that is reality. There is another saying in finance feilds..."Anyone who does not think corporations believe in fantasy has never read 5 year old financial forecasts." I think it is the same thing.
The historical facts point to a party dictatorship. How many dictatorships promise that this depotism is only a "transition period" and that the dictatorship will dissolve and give way to democracy when the people are "ready for democracy"?
For a time, yes. Transition for Taiwan's elections in the 1990s started in the 1970s. Was Taiwan a one man dictatorship? Or a one party dictatorship? If it is a one party dictatorship, then what in the heck happened? Where are they at now?
Lake, read Chiang's book "Russia in China", I don't know if there is an english version. If you don't read Dr. Sun's plan or his books to understand his WHOLE philosophy how can you say things like that?.
How long did Chiang stayed in Russia? How long does it take a person to learn Russian? And I believe at that time there was no bootcamp for Russian language school.
Another interesting point, what did Chiang's son got out of marrying a Russian girl since she was just a 'red russian'?
He was in Russia for 10 years and you don't think a young person would fall in love with a local girl?
Anybody thinks KMT is the same as CCP does not know China.
Yes, except for the period of Chinese Empire that lasted only for 83 days.
Of course KMT is different from CCP. That's why the US supported KMT because it was a GOOD dictatorship.
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