Syncretism and Secularism: Nihilism has become irrelevant, but what will come next?

World Magazine ^ | October 20, 2001 edition | Gene Edward Veith

[RnMomof7]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[RnMomof7]

I was born and raised catholic..I have no desire to participate in a Catholic bashing thread..you need to go back and read the post..I said that NO man could be saved by works. period.A Catholic started the conversation.

The inital post follows

Oh yes it is..They worship false gods.. The God of the Jews, the God of Islam, the God of the Philosophers and the God of Brahman Hindus, is the same as our God. Our paths diverge after that. Granted, the Trinity has not been revealed to these other people, but we don't have a complete understanding of God's essence either. 19 posted on 10/12/01 12:11 PM Pacific by Aquinasfan

My reply The God of the Jews, the God of Islam, the God of the Philosophers and the God of Brahman Hindus, is the same as our God. Our paths diverge after that. Granted, the Trinity has not been revealed to these other people, but we don't have a complete understanding of God's essence either. We can agree that the God of the Jews is the God of Christian believers. But allah is a false god..as is brahman....to say we have different "paths" is foolish new-age gibberish Deuteronomy 5 Thou shalt have none other gods before me. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: They are going to hell!

His response

To: RnMomof7 Mohammed was a false prophet, but that doesn't mean that "Allah" is a false god. "Allah" is the Aramaic word for "God." Yes, Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But that also means that God is Truth. We can't deny truths in other religion, because all truth is God's truth. So when other religions teach that God sustains everything in existence, that God is One, that God is omnipotent, et cetera, we have to affirm these truths. Yes, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus. But does that mean that someone has to recognize Jesus explicitly? Certainly someone who "loves his neighbor as himself," without understanding and explicitly acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Savior through no fault of his own, implicitly acknowledges Jesus. 28 posted on 10/13/01 5:58 AM Pacific by Aquinasfan

My responses

To: Aquinasfan Brahman Hinduism teaches about a God who sustains everything in its existence. It's essentially monotheistic. And there in lays the problem... The Holy God of Israel is THE God.. 30 posted on 10/13/01 7:18 AM Pacific by RnMomof7

To: Aquinasfan We can't deny truths in other religion, because all truth is God's truth. So when other religions teach that God sustains everything in existence, that God is One, that God is omnipotent, et cetera, we have to affirm these truths . Yes, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus. But does that mean that someone has to recognize Jesus explicitly? Certainly someone who "loves his neighbor as himself," without understanding and explicitly acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Savior through no fault of his own, implicitly acknowledges Jesus. You have been hanging around liberal Catholic theologians too long.:>) Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Philippians9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. As for loving your neighbor as a marker or means of salvation...well Luther put that aside! Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Romans 11:6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Ephesians 2 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. None of this is new to you ...so I hope that you were just generating some discussion Jesus is Lord and those that refuse to bend their knee to Him are lost.. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; .. 31 posted on 10/13/01 7:45 AM Pacific by RnMomof7

His response

: RnMomof7 "Faith without works is dead." That's in the Bible too. Intellectual assent is not enough. And what did Luther think about this passage? He regarded James as an "epistle of straw." 38 posted on 10/13/01 12:47 PM Pacific by Aquinasfan

My response

To: Aquinasfan "Faith without works is dead." That's in the Bible too. Intellectual assent is not enough. And what did Luther think about this passage? He regarded James as an "epistle of straw." I have been taught to appreciate Romans recently *a grin here for all good Calvinists* Romans 3 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 9 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 3 who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? And may I add that works without faith damns a man to hell 45 posted on 10/13/01 1:51 PM Pacific by RnMomof7 [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

His response..and the one in question..

To: RnMomof7

And may I add that works without faith damns a man to hell

So only someone who "accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior" is saved? Are all Muslims damned? All Hindus? All agnostics?

My response To: Aquinasfan So only someone who "accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior" is saved? Are all Muslims damned? All Hindus? All agnostics? 48 posted on 10/13/01 2:45 PM Pacific by Aquinasfan Yes as are Catholics and Protestants that think they are saved by works. 49 posted on 10/13/01 3:07 PM Pacific by RnMomof7</font size>

Please not it was a greneral statement not "Catholic Bashing" you guys are paranoid...I am no longer a Catholic,i have some very strong opinions about the Catholic Church,but I did not,nor do I intent to express them tonight

[RnMomof7]

In covenant theology we believe that the church existed prior to the New Terstament era, including all the redeemed since Adam. Pentecost was not the beginning of the church, but the empowering of the New Testament manifestation of God's people. Dispensationalists believe that the church began on the day of Pentecost and did not exist in history until that time. The church, the body of Christ, is not found in the Old Testament, and the Old Testament saints are not a part of the body of Christ.

I have to consider this as I have always considered Pentacost the "birthday " of the church..

[RnMomof7]

Re#55

I find that all too confusing..Pre/post /AHHHHHHH *grin*

I am not sure where I fit in that mess..I always figured He is in charge,however it works . I believe that there will be a tribulation per revelation...I believe that there will be a midtrib,or later rapture...that there will be a judgement then..I have no clue if there will be a reign on the current earth or in the "New Jerusalam"....

I need to read a bit more on this..I believe we are in the end times now..

So where does this mish mash put me??LOL

[Romulus]

Salman Rushdie, the novelist who has been under an Islamic death sentence...

The fatwa against Rushdie was withdrawn years ago.

[Romulus]

Just as the Romans were unwilling to die for their orgies in the face of the barbarian onslaught,...

Spare us this lurid Hollywood history, please. When the Western empire ceased to function, Catholic Christianity had been its official religion for 100 years.

[Romulus]

But in insisting that the terrorist attacks were justified...

I've seen attempts to explain the attacks from this direction. But an explanation and an excuse are two different things.

[Romulus]

The point, though, is that, in some circles, people are already lumping conservative Christians together with the Muslim terrorists as "fundamentalists," as the enemy who deserves to be stamped out.

This much is true, as attempts are made to flip the dislectic into that of faith vs. "progress".

[lockeliberty]

Will you please tell me which of the Founding Fathers was a fundamentalist of Falwell's ilk? I seem to recall that most of them were deists (Jefferson and Paine) or regular Episcopalian types (Washington) or Unitarians (the Adams brothers.)

First, Paine was not a founding father regardless of his influence on the masses. Second, J.Adams was a Calvinist as was most of New England although later in life I believe he wrote about having problems with the Trinity.

Of the 55 men who wrote and signed the U.S. Constitution of 1787, all but 3 were orthodox members of one of the established Christian communions: approximately 29 Anglicans, 16 to 18 Calvinists, 2 Methodists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Roman Catholics, 1 lapsed Quaker and sometime-Anglican, and 1 open Diest- Dr. Franklin who attended every kind of Christian worship, called for public prayer, and contributed to all denominations.
Tim LaHaye,Faith of our Founding Fathers1987

[lockeliberty]

Thanks for the posts.

[Matchett-PI]

#64: "..I believe we are in the end times now.."

You're right, but that is nothing new. We've been in the "end times" a/k/a "the last days" since the time of Christ.

[Matchett-PI]

"Thanks for the posts"

You're welcome!!

[RnMomof7]

You're right, but that is nothing new. We've been in the "end times" a/k/a "the last days" since the time of Christ.

In God's time ............Kairos...........He will come again to rule the living and the dead...You are right just as we are dying from the day we are born,the days have been counted and numbered since the cross!.....

Thanks for the posts..I have book marked them...they are a clear explaination.I may have a question or two when I reread them after church

[ex-snook]

Mother Angelica said: "Mr. President, would you consider putting prayer back in the schools and letting us pray at social functions? Could we pray in restaurants and could we have reminders of the Lord God? Can we put a crib back on our lawns and not be afraid of being ridiculed? Mr. President, would you consider having prayer back in the schools? Would you consider taking that horrible law with permission to kill, to terrorize the innocent? ...But would you consider, saying no more abortion is allowed in this country?" "

You said " Only a "dictator" could comply with this request:"

The operative word is 'consider'. You don't have to be a dictator to introduce legislation or amendments in this country. She asked the President to 'consider'. Really now that happens every day in a democracy.

Yep, you need a reading lesson.

[Matchett-PI]

#76: "The operative word is 'consider'.

Klintoon.... is that you?

No .... the operative word is not "consider" ... the operative word is "putting", as in, "putting something back".

Give it up, Klintoon. Most here aren't among Karl Marx' useful idiots who don't know what the meaning of "is", is.

[Matchett-PI]

#75: "People appear to be worshipping their concept of God, and not God."

You're right ... the majority do worship a god in their own image. The hirelings and soothsayers in the visible church know that too, and make sure they don't *offend* the majority, if they want to continue to live in the style to which they've become accustomed.

BTW ... would you be averse to telling me where you get "your concept" of God?

It would be interesting to know how you know you have "inalieable" rights and freedoms, also. Do men give you your rights? With what proofs would you defend your arguments for what you *know*?

You con't.... "Beware the man of one book.- St. Thomas Aquinas"

"Beware the man who teaches that the Bible isn't composed of 66 books." - St. Matchett PI

[RnMomof7]

Would you source that quote ? I would like to see it in context..I have looked and found NO source other than a Roman proverb"