Saudi Arabia and Islamic Fanatacism

UK Spectator | October 3,2001 | Stephen Schwartz

[wjeanw]

This is only half the picture. Read Yossef Bodansky's new book BIN LADEN: THE MAN WHO DECLARED WAR ON AMERICA as well as his TARGET: AMERICA where he documents the rise of Islamism. While Saudi interests finance Islamism and there are many leaders in the terrorist network who are sons of the current Saudi government, the theological and political foundation of Islamism is NOT Saudi.

[NY Catholic]

Thanks. I hope this country is is getting prepared for what is comming.

[Bosco]

Holy freakin' cow!

[Irene Adler]

Thank you for posting this excellent, specific description of Wahabism. I didn't understand it, or its relationship to the rest of Islam, before. Now, I wonder how the Wahabis compare to the Shiites.

I also have a close relative who may be travelling to Saudi Arabia this month (nothing I can do about it). Now, I am even more concerned than I was before.

[NY Catholic]

I live in NYC I have an 18 month old son and I am trying to keep the faith.

[Credo]

Wahabis make Shiites look mild. Wahab I think is a direct ancestor of the present Saudi royal family.

Basically Wahabis are strict Sunni's. The comparison to fundamentalist protestants is somewhat valid in that the Sunni's are congregational and what would be called "low church" in Christian circles. Wahabbis are this taken to the extreme.

Shia's approximate catholics. They believe that their "church" government flows through direct descendants of Mohammed. Some do venerate Islamic "saints".

This is simplistic I know, but I think the analogies may be appropriate. The Saudi royal family really doesn't believe in the Wahabbis but out of political expedience pay lip service to it. They've grown fat & rich reaping the benefits of Western Prosperity, but restricting the general population from enjoying this. Bin Laden views them as sell outs and they are probably his first short term target for take over.

[NY Catholic]

Well if that is true and the Fahd family is not part of this than it is fair to say that Saudi Arabia will be a likely target to be overthrown like Pakistan.

[Credo]

The succession of Saudi King's is its present weakness. Fahd is 80 years old and fairly incapacitated. This younger (70+) half brother Abdullah is slated to be next. It essentially goes through all the sons of Abdul Aziz. I don't think any of his remaining sons are less than 70 and there's only 5 of them left. I would assume the kingship would pass to the grandchildren, but the Arabian people by then may say they've had enough of the Al Saud.

The key is whether some freak like Bin Laden takes over or whether they move to democracy.

[Lady Heron]

Great post. I do not think that Wahhabism is the only problem with islam. The Itola Kohmani(sp) of Iran was shiite not sunni, I remember his calls for our deaths. Iran is a major sponsor of terrorism. The problem is the teachings of the koran. When taken literally it is not a peaceful religion

[LSJohn]

Larry, do a google on Vinell Corporation, Fairfax, Va.

Others: All the Carlyle Group's web sites seem to be under "modification." I wonder whether this is why:

Wall Street Journal excerpt, 9/27/01

Bin Laden family is tied to U.S. group

September 27, 2001 9:16am

Source: Wall Street Journal (US Edition), September 27, 2001

Osama bin Laden's family stands to gain from the fight against terrorism through its links with the Carlyle Group, a Washington-based merchant bank which specializes in buyouts of defense and aerospace companies. The bank is linked to the Saudi Binladin Group, the $5bn empire founded by Mohammed bin Laden, Osama's father. The family says it is now estranged from Osama and is cooperating fully with federal investigations. In recent years, former president George Bush, former Secretary of State James Baker and former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci have all made pilgrimages to the bin Laden family headquarters in Jeddah.

Abstracted from: The Wall St Journal

Copyright © 2001 Financial Times Limited - All Rights Reserved

Daily Mail, excerpt, 9/30/01

Terror Chief 'S Clan Cashes In

September 30, 2001 1:49am

Source: Daily Mail, September 28, 2001, Page 4

THE rich Bin Laden family are making millions of pounds from the U.S. as it boosts its defence spending, it emerged yesterday.

In 1995 they invested over L 3million in U.S.bank the Carlyle Group which deals in defence companies. The clan has already made Pounds 1.8million and could profit further as the U.S. spends billions on a war with their exiled brother Osama.

The Bin Ladens have also been acquainted with President Bush's father. Ex-President George Bush twice visited the family's business on behalf of the Carlyle Group.

[independentmind]

Above all, they hate ostentatious spirituality, much as Protestants detest don't understand the veneration of miracles and saints in the Roman Church.

[LSJohn]

Frank Carlucci Executive Biography

Frank C. Carlucci
Chairman

Frank C. Carlucci has served as Chairman of Nortel since April 1999. He has been a presidential advisor and served as U.S. Secretary of Defense from November 1987 to January 1989. After leaving the Department of Defense, Mr. Carlucci became Vice Chairman of The Carlyle Group, a merchant bank in Washington D.C., and has been serving as its Chairman since February 1993. In addition to having served as President and Chief Operating Officer of Sears World Trade Center, Inc., followed by the position as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Carlucci has held a number of other positions in government service. His role in the Executive Branch spans four U.S. administrations of both Republican and Democratic presidents. His appointments have included Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, Deputy Secretary of Defense, Deputy Director of Central Intelligence, Ambassador to Portugal, Undersecretary of the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, Associate, and Deputy Director of the Office of Management and Budget.

He also serves on the Board of Directors of Ashland Oil, Inc.; BDM International, Inc.; Bell Atlantic Corporation; CB Commercial Real Estate Group, Inc.; Connecticut Mutual Life Insurance Company; East New York Savings Bank; General Dynamics Corporation; Kaman Corporation; Neurogen Corporation; Northern Telecom Limited; The Quaker Oats Company; SunResorts, Ltd., NV; Texas Biotechnology Corporation; Pharmacia & Upjohn, Inc.; Vinnell Corporation; Westinghouse Electric Corporation; and the Board of Trustees for the RAND Corporation. Among his awards and honors are: Herbert Roback Memorial Award, 1989; George C. Marshall Award, 1989; Honorary Doctor of Law Degree University of Scranton, 1989; Woodrow Wilson Award, 1988; James Forrestal Award, 1988; Presidential Citizens Ward, 1983; National Intelligence Distinguished Service Medal, 1981; Distinguished Intelligence Medal, 1981; Defense Department Distinguished Civilian Service Award, 1977; Health Education and Welfare Distinguished Civilian Service Award, 1975; and State Department Superior Service Award, 1971.

[independentmind]

Wahhabism is subsidised by Saudi Arabia, even though bin Laden has sworn to destroy the Saudi royal family. The Saudis have played a double game for years, more or less as Stalin did with the West during the second world war. They pretended to be allies in a common struggle against Saddam Hussein while they spread Wahhabi ideology everywhere Muslims are to be found, just as Stalin promoted an 'antifascist' coalition with the US while carrying out espionage and subversion on American territory. The motive was the same: the belief that the West was or is decadent and doomed.

And why are we not hearing about this from the White House? What does it say about the U.S. that we have aligned ourselves with such? Do we have a death wish? Or do we think that money conquers all?

What really bothers me is the continuous message coming from this administration that Iran and Iraq are terrorist-sponsoring states. Both Iran and Iraq perceive Wahhibism as a threat to their national interests. So where is the real threat coming from? The Bush administration's version of events seems remarkably inconsitent to me.

[LSJohn]

Bet you have some knowledge related to the material in #12 and #14 above, and you may find the thread article interesting as well.

[LSJohn]

Meant to address #16 to you also.

[liberallarry]

See also

The real Muslim extremists

Won't be able to do Vinnell search for another hour.

[independentmind]

What is just as interesting is Soros' involvement with the Carlyle Group.