Posted on 10/02/2001 2:30:40 PM PDT by malakhi
I take that as a yes?
And one final point. If the Bible can't be trusted as the final authority, why then do you base any claim in the world upon it? If it isn't the final authority for the Christian faith combined with God himself, then nothing you claim has any bearing or weight to begin with - whether you twist scripture to get there or not. Your whole religion is a lie including that which we have in common. Sorry, I won't defend a Bible without shared teacher/congregation responsibility or a Bible without God argument.. even if it were to prove you wrong. I'll not defend a lie to prove a lie. But I will go back and look at your questions LOL.
Doesn't make any sense but thanks for sharing.
It helps if you keep it in context, so I put it back in context. And it makes perfect sense. If you claim to be Captain of a ship by writing your name in spraypainting on the side of the ship then get someone to believe you. Your cause is not helped by sinking the ship - unless sinking the ship is what you had in mind to begin with. Therefore if you can't say that God and the Bible combined are the final authority of the Christian faith, then basing anything on the Bible gives you zero credibility on any claim to it made. If you cannot trust it as final authority, it is no authority at all. Why, you ask? Simple, it's level of consistency is such that if major portions of it cannot be trusted, the whole work comes in question. Christians Can trust it because it has been proven in their lives. We don't have to pick through it to see what we can trust because God is faithful to his word, when we do what he says he's faithful to his word in our lives even if we haven't read far enough to recognize it.
The dubious writers you wish to call 'fathers' don't agree with the Bible or each other - What authority do they have? None. Any weight they might have immediatly falls into question when they can't agree with the Bible. Then they can't agree with one another either. God is not divided against himself, nor is he the author of confusion. If they aren't in line with Scripture, the only thing produced in the writing of their works is toilet paper.
This is found in your councils as well. Men who are all supposedly 'led of the spirit' get together and vote on what the spirit has told each of them. I offered up something back in I want to say the 30s that showed like 7 different conclusions reached through the spirit to the same question. This isn't the leading of the spirit at work. And when the outcome isn't in line with the Bible as a whole, or on the particular subject, then the Lord was not served. A lord may have been; but, "THE LORD" was not. Adopting things that are at odds with the word of God is equivalent to lying, deception and blaspheming God at once. And alas I think I now understand why Jews say G_d rather than God. Because at least they have enough sense to fear God rather than risk taking his name in vain or blaspheming him. Praise God his people at least still love him whether they accept the Messiah or not! I wish they would all accept the Messiah, They'd be shocked by what they're missing. My stepdad is blessed beyond words because he is a Messianic Jew. He knows how good God is. And he's the humblest servant of God you'll ever meat while being one of the most powerful men of God I've known. He has little, needs nothing and gives away what he has if it will help someone. He knows the authority he has in Jesus and uses it to heal the sick and Help the needy. And his prayers for me during the lowest point of my life turned my life around on a dime and gave me the job I dreamed of for ten years. God heard him because of his obedience to the Lord and worked through him to answer his prayers and my hopes.
For those of you who don't know the whole story, I'll tell it if you wish; but, I've made my point. I love the Lord and I praise God for men like my stepdad. God blesses that man beyond belief. He's not without his sorrows; but, God has raised him out of his sorrows and gave him something far better. God has performed it all. And were it not for his obedience and faith, God might not have done any of it.
I'll answer yours (in due time, after time to think and study for proper answers) if you answer me this: Honestly, are those your questions or did you get them from another source? Thanks.
BTW, I have answered many of these questions (or very similar questions) here in the past.
Sola scriptura is independant reading absent responsibility and absent a teacher/congregation working and absent listening to God. It is a false notion that Protestants all follow this. As I've said for some time, it is a non argument and a diversionary tactic.
I like your style. It is late and I am tired so I will post my answers in the AM. I think these questions are important on both sides so I want to answer them when my battery is recharged.
Nite All
The Lord Jesus publicly condemned the Pharisees because their traditions contradicted Scripture and led men away from the pure truth of God's Word
(Mk. 7:6-13). He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
The Pharisees claimed to be the divinely ordained caretakers and interpreters of God's Word, just as the Roman Catholic pope and bishops claim today. Jesus is not on earth now bodily, but He is in Spirit, and through His Spirit He continues to condemn those who, by their traditions, contradict and deny the Scriptures. He condemns the Roman Catholic Church and any other group which places its own tradition on an equal footing with the Bible.
Theres the first one pegleg and in record time I might add. :)
BigMack
I got them from Steven Ray's web site. He is a Catholic convert. He actually had many more but I thought these were the most appropriate for these threads. I have asked some of the questions on these threads so I can truthfully say some of them are mine. But what the heck, they are good questions don't you think?
You're into this I can tell. This time I really am signing off.
Peace
Here's one: Revelation 1: 9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
It doesn't, that I'm aware of. But sola scriptura doesn't make that claim. Although many who misunderstand it do think it means that.
Ok, perhaps I have misunderstood the argument of Sola Scriptura. My reading of it says that it accuses a Bible only method - absent of God in it's implications and absent of the teaching methods provided for within the Bible.
This has been my understanding of it and the reason I say the whole argument is a Knard. It has nothing to do with the belief of Christians or Many so called Protestants. And I believe nothing to do with the belief expressed by those present. But some of the questions he asked are dying to be answered, so, I'll be at it as I can tomorrow myself. I have to hit the sack for now myself. If one is going to work as to the Lord, one must have enough rest to do so :) Night ya'll.
He didn't, the Father did, so I guess he did you know that Trinity thing.
The Apostles had special inspiration and guidance for writing Scripture. The work of the Apostles is called foundation work in Ep. 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
They were appointed by God to lay the foundation of the church. This indicates a temporary, passing, one-time work. Once a foundation for a structure is laid, it is not laid again. Likewise, the Apostles did a work which has no need of repeating. They established the first churches and wrote the New Testament, thus completing the Bible, God's Book for this age. To the Apostles was revealed the "faith once delivered to the saints"
Jude 3; Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Ep. 3:3-6 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
3:4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
When their unique foundational work was finished, they passed off the scene.
BigMack
Thats Great lowegian!
BigMack
If you haven't studied the subject it would be very easy to let the RC's redefine the term so that it suits their needs (straw man arguments abound). I have posted previously here on the many myths about Sola Scriptura and what it means and doesn't mean. If I can find it I will give you a link.
Your next!
BigMack
1) Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?
And you ran away from the question, because Our Lord never wrote nor did he imply that a book would be written which would contain the whole Gospel. The Gospel canot be be contained.
What no formal catholic spin from your leaders.
I answered in FULL DETAIL!
You just can't handle the TRUTH!
BigMack
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