MOTHER ANGELICA PLEADS FOR PURGING OF "OTHER" TERRORISM IN U.S.

She identified pornography, abortion, child prostitution, the spread of drugs, the destruction of youth by an immoral media and the suppression of religious expression in public places

Which one of these things are you proud as an American to be able to participate in? Just the pornography? Or do you demand the license to engage in the others too? You are a sick individual if you are defending these things on Free Republic, "A CONSERVATIVE NEW FORUM."

I have a feeling the vast majority of those reading this thread would prefer you, who defends the rights of Americans to destroy our youth and family foundations, be "purged." I hope for your sake your only purging is in purgatory.

They can feel quite comfortable in the 'immoral' category.

Yair.

They're pretty contented with "Imoral."

And even with "abhorent" and amoral."

And other Earthly labels.

Kinda, "Ho hum."

It's that darned "Abomination" category that gitts 'em riled.

This nutcase — me — has to agree with the nun. We kill more chidren each month through abortion than we have lost in all the terrorist attacks in our history. Technical legality doesn't excuse murder.

If the post upsets you, get yourself gone . . .

I'll partake in all as long as it doesn't involve kids. So I guess that means child hookers are out my man. If I want some mind altering substances I'll go down to the 7/11 and buy a six pack, if I want to watch a adult movie that's my business. And who decides what the "immoral media" is? You?

It sounds like you would love the big government police state in our private lives. And you call yourself a conservative? What a laugh!

Perhaps another big government police state lover you are...Too bad.

And who decides what the "immoral media" is?

Who decides is secondary to the fundamental fact that it exists. Do you deny that it does?

It sounds like you would love the big government police state in our private lives. And you call yourself a conservative? What a laugh!

So says every two-bit con-man, ex-con, and small-time hustler. "Just leave me alone to destroy myself, to pollute the nation's blood supply, and to bankrupt the nation's health care and health research budgets! Take away all warning signs from all highways, and let people learn the hard way! Remove all guard rails and fences from all sheer cliffs, and allow me to call myself 'compassionate'. Just leave me and my sacred dime alone, and don't take away my little gratifications lest I turn to rage!"

There is some media I don't particularly like. I won't put the "immoral" tag on it because that's a matter of opinion. Some people think Rush Limbaugh is immoral. Some think Howard Stern is. There you go.

That sounds like an argument some gun control nut would make as well.

So do you want to ban cigarettes, booze, Big Macs etc??

So do you want to ban cigarettes, booze, Big Macs etc??

There is nothing inherently immoral about tobacco, alcohol, oily foods, etc. No one ever had liver failure from one can of Budweiser. No one ever had a heart attack from consuming one hamburger. No one ever died from smoking one cigarette. The same cannot be said for one act of homosexual sodomy.

I won't put the "immoral" tag on it because that's a matter of opinion.

So you're saying that immorality (not the same thing as "offensiveness") is utterly subjective? Mein Kampf is not immoral? Kiddie porn is not immoral? It's all perception? How very postmodern.

Well when NAMBLA or Adolf Hitler's ghost get a radio or TV show get back to me.

I won't put the "immoral" tag on it because that's a matter of opinion.

Yep. The ideologues are moral-cowards, brainwashed by their Marxist professors with tenure who make little mental clones of themselves in the minds of their students, the future leaders of our nation. 'Tis a sad thing when anyone's opinion of right and wrong is as good as anyone else's, and how terrible majoritarian rule is, etc.

Mother Angelica Calls for halt to "other" terrorism in U.S. - LifeSite - September 18, 2001

Mother Angelica Live Television Program on EWTN
September 25, 2001

Note: Mother Angelica had a number of strokes just after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11. The text below is excerpted from her September 25 television and radio program which was her first time back since the strokes took place. She now has a patch over one eye, has slightly slurred speech and is unable to smile properly because of the strokes. The program is usually heard by millions of people aroung the world.

Program Excerpt - Comments by Mother Angelica:

I wanted to share with you some thoughts I've had about the problems we have in this country, the war, but what kind of war is it? There's no place to go, nothing that you can think to do that would be right, even though justice is necessary.

I'd like to talk to you tonight about other terrorists.

Let's take social terrorists - in our country. The kind of terrorists that go into schools and spread drugs. The kind of terrorists that kidnap little children and make them prostitutes and what was always known as white slavery. The kind of terrorists in the entertainment world that put out on television in public, in Europe and all over the world, the worst, worst kind of movies, the most immoral movies. Those are social terrorists. You say, oh no Mother, they, oh yea....look what they have done to this country, look what they have done to our youth. And what is a terrorist, I don't know what a definition is... someone who wants to destroy.

We've had two beautiful buildings destroyed on our land. And many innocent people. People who were blown to bits - just like the first 10, 20 years of abortion. Cut to pieces, thrown in garbage cans and eaten by cats. Same as now. Those are terrorists. I think they're the worst because they destroy innocence and life and populations. Our population is nothing what it should have been. Millions that belonged to us are gone and to me, and, I might be way off beam, I just want to share my heart with you - all those millions and millions that are gone, they can't fight for us because they aren't there. Isn't that a terrorist thing? Isn't it terrorism to have Satan's music for our little ones to absorb and to begin to murder and kill. Isn't it terrorist to spread drugs everywhere, to push prostitution and immorality among our youth, weaken their hearts, their souls, their minds? Isn't that terror?

Then there's spiritual terror, the kind that makes you afraid to say a prayer in public, the kind that makes you hide your crucifixes and anything religious in your office. The kind that says you can't have a crib in public. That's a terrorist because, in your heart you want to love God. You want to praise God. You want to say thank you Jesus for coming to save us as a little child. Thank you Lord. I think that's a terrorism that's acceptable... but I don't think it is.

Mr. President, I'm an old lady with a minor little stroke, or whatever it is and only one eye, but I can see - that this nation, great, mighty, a sleeping giant, that could bring the whole world to holiness, goodness, compassion, strength and hope, but I don't think, unless we tackle the terrorists in OUR country, we can expect God to protect and guide us.

Mr. President, would you consider putting prayer back in the schools and letting us pray at social functions? I understand that you prayed at a football game or baseball game. Could we pray in restaurants and could we have reminders of the Lord God? Can we put a crib back on our lawns and not be afraid of being ridiculed? Mr. President, would you consider having prayer back in the schools? Would you consider taking that horrible law with permission to kill, to terrorize the innocent? I know some of you are mad at me right now. I figure in my condition I have nothing to lose. But would you consider, saying no more abortion is allowed in this country? Would you consider?

Mr. President, I thought your speech was wonderful. I don't play Democrat or Rebublican. I don't play anything in politics. I think, in general, politics stinks, but, you gotta vote for somebody. I was proud of you the other day. You were strong and you did put God in. But you see, you can't have two opposite things. You can't allow such terrorists in our country. I know, I know what some of you're out there are thinking "Well you have your nerve, you're trying to tell us what to do". No, I don't care what you do. If you don't want to pray, don't pray. I believe in freeedom of religion. I also believe in God and this country is no longer free. See, if you're not free Mr. President, you can't make others free. You can't give what we don't possess.

If we offend God by pornography and allowing pornography, by drugs, by not enough care and supervision, by television that's absolutely rotten, disgraceful, immoral, and allowing innocent children, they feel, those kids feel whatever it is. In the old days they used to have salt saline abortion. They'd burn the little children. As long as that's a law, it cannot be pleasing to God. We can't keep offending God here, then ask for his blessing here. It's not going to work. Most of you might say, mind your own business and talk spiritual things. I think I am, talking about deeply spiritual things.

And all of you that have been so hidden and hurt because of the way these over 6,000 people died, cruel, without love, without anything. What about those little kids. They had no place to run. They had no place to go. You see, I don't want to be depressing tonight. I love you. I love you Mr. President. You may never hear this talk. I hope the spirit, in one of your prayer groups, whispers in your ear because I think some drastic anti-terrorism has to be done in this country - to make us free - to make us filled with trust in God. Then, then you can do the work that you have been given to do. And then the almighty God from on high will be with you, and with this country, and with the world.

I love our president and our congress, because they've gotten together and they done everything America should do. They rose to the occasion. Just as with Pearl Harbour, the Japanese said they woke a sleeping giant, they did again (now). This time, we have a few hindrances. I'm only saying that if we're going to clear out or try to bring to justice terrorists we had better first look at home.... We must be brave and we must accept our penance. We must also change. We must pray, not only for those who died in those terrible, terrible attacks, but have we ever prayed for the children who were murdered, every day? Have we ever said Lord, I can't stop it but I pray they have a high degree of glory in your kingdom... Let us become a repenting nation and change.

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Now THAT brings a smile to my face. Wonder if our dear Watson would know two real conservatives if he ever saw them?

Difficult Questions Regarding the Terror Attacks

Difficult Questions Regarding the Terror Attacks

One of the most vexing problems in theology is the problem of evil. If God is good why does He permit great evils, such as the terrorist attacks of 11 September? Could He not, with a mere thought, stop all evil in its tracks, protecting lives and souls from destruction, physical or moral? Is not His goodness diminished when innocent people suffer at the hands of evil men?

The complexity of the issue is deepened when the question, which a number of religious commentators have raised, is asked: Did the sins of our own society merit this chastisement? In other words, was God punishing or speaking to America through this event? I will try to throw some light on both questions, though ultimately it is not possible to know definitively what is ultimately a mystery of the working of Divine Providence.

The Problem of Evil

God is by nature infinite and eternal goodness. He cannot do anything evil without violating His own nature. One could say that His omnipotence ends there. His power is not actually limited, but it is power capable only of good.

God is infinite and eternal justice. He cannot act except in accordance with the truth, which He Himself is. He cannot tolerate evil. His justice demands that it be rectified. Yet, He is infinite mercy, allowing us time to rectify our own evils through repentance and reparation. If His mercy did not tolerate evil for a time, for the sake of repentance, no one could survive His justice.

In creating angels and men like Himself God gave us the gift of free will. This gift is a great good, because it allows us to participate in Godâ€™s goodness, not as robots, but willing and choosing goodness for ourselves. God also created the universe good, free of even material evils. The pride of the fallen angels introduced evil into both their own persons (moral evil) and into creation (physical or material evil). These angels were to have a role in Godâ€™s governance of material creation. The good angels still do, but the fallen angels use their knowledge and their power to disrupt the creation they were intended to help govern. Furthermore, they tempted mankind to sin, through Adam, and thus introduced both moral and physical evil to the human race. They continue to tempt human beings to join their ranks against God, as part of a primordial battle between good and evil, between the mystery of piety (represented by Christ) and the mystery of iniquity (represented by Satan).

Thus, we can say that it is because of sin, and sin alone, angelic sin and human sin, that moral and physical evils entered the world. When the fallen angels sinned, and they continue to do so, the consequences included disorder in the material universe. When man sinned, despite Godâ€™s protection from chaos, he became subject to the consequences of the angelic sin in nature, and brought the consequences of his own sin upon himself. The principle consequence was death, both the loss of eternal life, and the loss of natural life.

The Problem of Innocent Suffering

Most of us understand the nature of justice. If we do something wrong we expect to get punished for it. More difficult to understand is why good people suffer.

In the Old Testament God tried to teach His people about justice. He started with strict justice, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. If Israel was faithful she was blessed, if unfaithful she was punished. Later on, when Israel seems finally to have learned some of these lessons, God proceeded to teach His people about innocent suffering. God had not changed, but like a good parent He conformed His instruction and His discipline to the capacity and needs of His children.

We have an example of this in the book of Job. There we see the just man Job losing almost everything, while holding himself innocent. His friends are happy to disabuse him of this claim, conforming themselves to justice as Israel had understood it until then. However, through means of a dialogue between Satan and God, we see behind the scenes into the working of Godâ€™s Providence. The suffering of innocent Job actually ends up glorifying Job in the eyes of man, bringing him greater holiness, and even more magnificent worldly success. That which evil, Satan, intended is overthrown, so that after short-lived material suffering, even greater spiritual and material good is possessed by Job than previously. This glorifies God, who is so powerful that He is able to bring good out of evil. The act of Creation only brought good out of nothing.

Ultimately, the greatest model of innocent suffering is Jesus Christ. To the idea of justice contained in Job is now added the idea of justice united with redemptive love. Suffering can be endured for the sake of others, saving them not principally from material evils, though that too occurs, but primarily from the greatest evil of all, the loss of God for eternity. As Job teaches us that innocent suffering endured for a time can bring great spiritual and material benefits, Jesus teaches us that innocent suffering endured for a time can bring great benefits to OTHERS. Thus, the innocent suffering of Jesus unites perfect justice with perfect love. It changes innocent suffering into redemptive suffering.

In summary it can be said that the evils we experience in life have two causes, the sin of the angels and human sin. God permits us to experience such evils, that is, does not routinely intervene to prevent the working out of the consequences of sin, because He foresees one of three goods coming from them. First, the good of justice, disciplining the sinner, inviting him to repentance, and balancing the scales of justice in the world. If this is fruitful converted sinners are spared an eternal spiritual punishment through a temporal material punishment. If it is not fruitful then the sinner has chosen his own fate. Secondly, there is the good of purification, by which the just are purged of their sins and weaknesses through the patience, the gracefulness, by which they endure suffering. Finally, there is the good of redemptive suffering, by which the just participate in Christâ€™s suffering for the salvation of others.

So, whether one endures sickness or calamity at the hands of nature, or tragedy at human hands, the cause is known, sin, but Godâ€™s reason for permitting it varies from person to person, according to their spiritual need.

Is God speaking to America?

When there is a mass calamity, such as a natural disaster or the terrorist attacks, one naturally asks about the divine calculation which permitted it. If the death of a single person involves a special divine providence, since their salvation is determined in that moment, how much more the deaths of hundreds or thousands, or even millions, as in a world war. In such circumstances there are quite obviously people who die who are guilty of sin, such as the terrorists or the aggressors in wartime, others for whom the circumstances of dying will be spiritually medicinal and lead to their being saved, and others who are just and undeserving, whose suffering makes them holier and/or allows them to participate in the redemption of others. Clearly God alone can make those calculations, such that suffering, even of the innocent, is not wasted.

But is there a further value beyond the personal consequence to each of those who died - whether punishment, conversion, purification or redemption? Scripture, as well as the words of countless saints and mystics, tell us that there is. God uses such events to warn of the consequences of sin and to lead countless individuals, even nations, to repentance and conversion. Consider how Jesus responded to the issue of tragedies. In the first part of His response the tragedy is the death of Jews, suffering for their faith in God. In the second it is victims of probably an earthquake.

At that time some people who were present there told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with the blood of their sacrifices. He said to them in reply, "Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way they were greater sinners than all other Galileans? By no means! But I tell you, if you do not repent, you will all perish as they did!

Or those eighteen people who were killed when the tower at Siloam fell on them--do you think they were more guilty than everyone else who lived in Jerusalem? By no means! But I tell you, if you do not repent, you will all perish as they did!" (Luke 13:1-5)

Jesus offers the death of the innocent and the guilty alike as a general warning to all. The sin of Adam, from which we all suffer, brought mankind physical death (Romans 5:12), personal unrepentance brings eternal death, a far greater calamity. The physical deaths of so many brings the reality of death dramatically home to others, and becomes for the Lord an occasion to teach us that there is an even worse kind of death.

When calamity befell Israel it was God warning the Israelites to repent. We must learn the same lesson today, in the circumstances of the terrorist attacks on America. Indeed, so broad is this tragedy that it cannot be intended for a single nation but must be for the entire world, especially the Western world, which has forgotten its Christian heritage.

Can we say, therefore, that the sins of abortion, sodomy and injustice to the poor, the three traditional sins which cry out to God for vengeance, as well as our own sins, are responsible for this act. No, if we mean personal moral responsibility. That rests solely with the terrorists, those who formally cooperated in their crimes, and those who provided immediate material support. However, to the extent that sin is the cause of death, and that by not ceasing to sin there are millions in our country and billions on our planet, who need to repent and convert, we have all materially cooperated in establishing the pre-condition for Godâ€™s permitting such a dramatic act of evil to take place. As in Sodom and Gomorrah, as in Bethsaida and Chorazin (whom Christ warned for rejecting Him), as it is in all tragedies and wars, the innocent will die with the guilty, for the salvation and purification of those who can be converted, and the judgment of those who cannot.

Are the Victims Martyrs?

Given such a vicious assault on human dignity it seems reasonable to consider those who died martyrs who went straight to heaven. Two general statements must be made. First, the victims were certainly martyrs in a broad sense, as they died on account of hatred of the Christian West. Despite the secularization of our Western societies, and the hatred by the terrorists of other elements in them which contradict Christian values, it remains true that a misguided religious fervor was behind the attacks. Secondly, notwithstanding that, it cannot be said that the victims were martyrs in the technical sense, which theology and the Church employs. For this is required the fulfillment of two conditions, the conscious decision of the victim to accept death for Christ (which St. Thomas ascribes to the Gift of Fortitude), and the motive of hatred of the faith. Thus, even if we grant the second condition, the fulfillment of the first would require a) the rising of those in the state of mortal sin to justice by perfect contrition, and then, b) the acceptance of their death for Christ, through the now present Gift of Fortitude. It is impossible for a passive act of martyrdom to justify a person and earn them heaven. Unlike the Holy Innocents, who had no personal guilt, adults must freely change their will to attain eternal life.

Are we justified in thinking, however, that God made some special provision for these souls? I believe we are on two grounds. First, St. Faustina tells us that no human being dies without the opportunity of accepting or rejecting repentance. The statements of mystics, like Blessed Padre Pio, regarding suicides who converted in the moment of death, already suggest this. This gives the families of suicides, as well as the victims of violent acts, a real hope of eternal life for their loved ones. However, it is a possibility, not a certainty. Secondly, the honor and glory of God is the ultimate purpose of the universe. Everything works for that end. In this attack Godâ€™s honor was doubly offended. First, it was done in His name, a blasphemy of the first order. Secondly, the West was attacked, at least in part for the Christian faith. Both reasons give us great hope that the desire of the ultimate terrorist (the devil) to see large numbers of people die in their sins and be condemned was, at the moment of death, prevented by the mercy of God. If this did occur, whether the individuals who repented went to heaven or purgatory would depend, as always, on the thoroughness of their repentance. Not knowing their fate with certainty, we should continue to pray for the repose of their souls.

Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL

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