Posted on 09/21/2001 7:49:05 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
But, thanks for the heads up.
Anyway, I think he was right. The topic is not really appreciated on FR. I think it's relevant, however.
crack.....crack....is that the ice?</font size>
Of course one's faith is an integral part of one's political/spiritual/ethical viewpoint and am not, in any way, trying to squelch or dismiss religious viewpoints, even those which I might disagree.
The overt purpose of the website is to advance conservative political discussion but I see no need for it to become bogged down with theological arguments that (IMO) are best reserved for another forum. I visit forums about parrots (I own one), sports and other areas I'm interested in. Politics do come into each of these forums but we try to brush them aside and focus on the subject matter of that particular forum. Folks who can't stay on topic usually get banned eventually.
As for the prayer threads, I'm reminded of the verse where Jesus commands his followers to go pray in secret and He will hear them in secret and intercede. I prayed tonight for our leaders, our nation and the victims of the recent attacks but I have no need to recite them here. I'm confident God hears my prayers just as well if I don't post them online.
Religion is a touchy issue and I don't wish to start any flames over it. There are a great many non-religious threads I've seen that I also thought were inappropriate for FR. Bottom line is that it's not my call. Thank goodness I don't have to run this thing.
As with any large group, what's important to one can often be irrelevent to others. JimRob has a pretty big tent here. I just wish more people could remember why they're in it.
From: Pat Bridgewater To: mailto:Undisclosed-Recipient:@flint.mmind.net Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 1:17 AM
Subject: Assembly of God News #601 --
(snip personalized intro to evidently Pat's personal email list)
A/G NEWS #601: September 14, 2001
--DRAMATICALLY--
SURVIVING THE 81ST FLOOR OF WORLD TRADE TOWER TWO
Tuesday, September 11, 2001, began like any other day for Bethel Assembly of God deacon and Sunday school superintendent Stanley Praimnath of Elmont, Long Island. He got up early, took a shower, prayed, got ready and headed for work. The drive was uneventful. The train ride was the same. Yet, this day he would see the hand of God spare his life.
"For some particular reason, I gave the Lord a little extra of myself that morning [during prayer]," Stanley said. "I said, 'Lord, cover me and all my loved ones under your precious blood.' And even though I said that and believed it, I said it over and over and over."
When Stanley arrived at World Trade Center Tower Two, he took the elevator up to his office on the 81st floor. "I work for the Fuji Bank Limited," he said. "I'm an assistant vice president in the Loans Operations Department. The company is located on the 79th through 82nd floors."
Stanley greeted Delise, a young lady who had arrived before him. After talking briefly, he headed over to his desk and picked up his phone to retrieve his messages.
"As I'm standing there retrieving my messages, I'm looking out at the next building, One World Trade, and I saw fire falling through from the roof," Stanley said. "Now, this entire building is surrounded by glass, and you can stand up and from there you can see all the buildings, planes and everything flying at the same altitude."
As Stanley saw "fire balls" coming down, his first reaction was to think of his boss who works in that building. He decided to try to call him to see if he was okay. "I'm dialing his number, and getting no response. So, I say to Delise, the temp, 'Go, go, go--let's get out."
Delise and Stanley got on the elevator and went down to the 78th floor. Some other people were there. The company's president, the CEO, the human resources director and two other gentlemen joined the group and headed down to the concourse level of Two World Trade Center. If they had continued on and exited the building, all of their lives would have been spared. As it was, that's not the way it happened.
"As soon as we reached the concourse level, the security guard stopped us and said, 'Where are you going?' Stanley explained about seeing the fire in Tower One. According to Stanley, the guard said, "Oh, that was just an accident. Two World Trade is secured. Go back to your office."
That turned out to be fatal advice--aside from Stanley, Delise was the only one of that group to survive. "We were joking, and I told [Human Resources Director] Brian Thompson, 'This is a good time to think of relocating this building--it's not safe anymore.' " Stanley headed back to his office, but before he got there, he told Delise, that with the events of the day, she should go home and relax.
Thompson went to the 82nd floor, the president and CEO went to the 79th floor and Stanley got out on the 81st floor. When Stanley got to his office, his phone was ringing. "It was someone from Chicago calling to find out if I'm watching the news," he said. He told the caller everything "was fine."
But everything wasn't fine--far from it. As Stanley was talking, he looked up and saw American Airlines Flight 11 heading straight for him. "All I can see is this big gray plane, with red letters on the wing and on the tail, bearing down on me," said Stanley. "But this thing is happening in slow motion. The plane appeared to be like 100 yards away, I said 'Lord, you take control, I can't help myself here.' "
Stanley then dove under his desk. "My Testament [Bible] was on top of my desk," explained Stanley. "I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Lord was going to take care of me once I got there." As he curled into a fetal position under his desk, the plane tore into the side of the building and exploded.
Miraculously, Stanley was unhurt. However, he could see a flaming wing of the plane in the doorway of his department. He knew he needed to get out of his office and the building fast. But, he was trapped under debris up to his shoulders. "Lord, you take control, this is your problem now," he recalled praying. "I don't know where I got this power from, but the good Lord, He gave me so much power and strength in my body that I was able to shake everything off. I felt like I was the strongest man alive."
All the while, Stanley was asking to the Lord to spare his life. "I'm crying and I'm praying, 'Lord, I have things to do..., I want to see my family, Lord, help me through.' "
Stanley's office resembled a battle zone--walls flattened into dusty heaps, office equipment strewn violently, flames flickering about and rubble everywhere. "Everything I'm trying to climb on [to get out] is collapsing and I'm going down," he said. "I'm getting cuts and bruises, but I'm saying, 'Lord, I have to go home to my loved ones, I have to make it, You have to help me.' "
Suddenly Stanley saw the light of a flashlight. For a moment, it stunned him. "What were the chances of someone bringing a flashlight to this floor?," he thought. "My first gut reaction was, 'This is my guardian angel--my Lord sent somebody to save me!' "
Stanley began screaming, "I see the light, I see the light." But after clawing his way through the debris, he realized that he couldn't get out--all the exits were blocked and his "guardian angel" couldn't get to him--a wall was between him and the staircase. "He can't get to me and I can't get to him, and by this time I can't breathe," Stanley said. "I don't know if it was sulfur or what [burning jet fuel, perhaps], but I can smell this thing. I got down on my knees and said, "Lord, You've got to help me. You've brought me this far, help me to get to the staircase."
But then Stanley did something surprising. While praying on his knees, Stanley called out to the man behind the wall, "There's one thing I got to know, do you know Jesus?" The man replied he went to church every Sunday. Then they prayed together to enable them to break through the wall. "I got up, and I felt as if a power came over me," said Stanley. "I felt goose bumps all over my body and I'm trembling, and I said to the wall, 'You're going to be no match for me and my Lord.' " Moments later, he punched his way through the wall and, with the help of the man on the other side, was able to squirm his way through the hole in the wall. "The guy held me and embraced me and he gave me a kiss and he said, 'From today, you're my brother for life.' "
But the danger wasn't over. The man on the other side of the wall, who introduced himself as Brian, was an older gentleman and they still had 81 floors to walk down, with the building on fire and, unknown to them, in danger of collapse. "We hobbled our way down, and at every floor we stopped to see if anybody was there, but nobody was..., but a man was on the floor, and his back was gone, and he was covered in blood."
Stanley asked to be allowed to carry the man out, but a security guard told him it would be better to send somebody up. When they finally made it down to the concourse, only firefighters were there. "They were saying, 'Run! Run! Run!', they were telling us to run out, but they were not concerned about themselves," he said.
Stanley and Brian would have run from the building, but now the concourse was surrounded with fire. Wetting themselves under the building's sprinkler system, they held hands and ran through the flames to safety to Trinity Church about two blocks away. "I wanted to go to the church to thank God," Stanley explained, "As soon as I held onto the gate of that church, the building [World Trade Center Tower Two] collapsed."
Stanley and Brian made there way safely out of the danger area. Before they parted, Stanley gave his business card to Brian in hopes of contact at a later time, and said, "If I don't see you, I'll see you in heaven."
Cut and bloodied, with clothes tattered and wearing a borrowed shirt, Stanley finally made it home hours later to his wife Jennifer and his two girls, Stephanie (age 8) and Caitlin (age 4). "I held my wife and my two children and we cried," said Stanley. After thanking God for sparing his life, Stanley told God whatever he did, it will always be for His glory. "I'm so sore, but every waking moment, I say 'Lord, had you not been in control, I would not have made it.'
"For some divine reason, I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the good Lord's mighty hand turned the plane a fraction from where I was standing," said Stanley. "Because when it crash-landed, it was just 20 feet from me. I don't care who would rationalize--what people would say now or years from now, but I know it was the handiwork of the Lord that turned that plane. My Lord Jesus is bigger than the Trade Center and His finger can push a plane aside!"
Dan Van Veen
By the same token, I'd like to enjoy something akin to the freedoms others of other persuasions enjoy hereon.
For those who want notice before a thread gets pulled, suggest that they save it on their own hard drive. Let them know that we do not have the time to notify before pulling because if a thread is bad enough to pull, it must be BAD. If they can't remember to save it, too bad.May I be specific here, by 'entire post' it is meant the offending reply on-thread, not the entire article. (Yes, I know - but, with some people like John says, you have to make it clear - sometimes in several ways - *bg*)For those who want a "take back" feature, suggest they hit the abuse button to remove their own post. SOMETIMES that works for me. hehe. Also remind them that's what the PREVIEW is for.
Remind the users that when they hit the abuse button, they will get a much faster response if they copy the entire post into the abuse box. Ask them to AT LEAST provide a FReepname and post #.
My question is where is the most fitting place to post this sort of msg which follows. I believe it is most fitting in current news or extended news. But maybe I'm wrong.
MESSAGE EXAMPLE: [Pat B included this comment: "I received this from Dean and Charlotte this evening. From everything we've been able to check out, it is true." in her more personal introduction to her mailing list of friends.
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 1:17 AM Subject: Assembly of God News #601 A/G NEWS #601: September 14, 2001
[DRAMATICALLY] SURVIVING THE 81ST FLOOR OF WORLD TRADE TOWER TWO
Tuesday, September 11, 2001, began like any other day for Bethel Assembly of God deacon and Sunday school superintendent Stanley Praimnath of Elmont, Long Island. He got up early, took a shower, prayed, got ready and headed for work. The drive was uneventful. The train ride was the same. Yet, this day he would see the hand of God spare his life.
"For some particular reason, I gave the Lord a little extra of myself that morning [during prayer]," Stanley said. "I said, 'Lord, cover me and all my loved ones under your precious blood.' And even though I said that and believed it, I said it over and over and over."
When Stanley arrived at World Trade Center Tower Two, he took the elevator up to his office on the 81st floor. "I work for the Fuji Bank Limited," he said. "I'm an assistant vice president in the Loans Operations Department. The company is located on the 79th through 82nd floors."
Stanley greeted Delise, a young lady who had arrived before him. After talking briefly, he headed over to his desk and picked up his phone to retrieve his messages.
"As I'm standing there retrieving my messages, I'm looking out at the next building, One World Trade, and I saw fire falling through from the roof," Stanley said. "Now, this entire building is surrounded by glass, and you can stand up and from there you can see all the buildings, planes and everything flying at the same altitude."
As Stanley saw "fire balls" coming down, his first reaction was to think of his boss who works in that building. He decided to try to call him to see if he was okay. "I'm dialing his number, and getting no response. So, I say to Delise, the temp, 'Go, go, go--let's get out."
Delise and Stanley got on the elevator and went down to the 78th floor. Some other people were there. The company's president, the CEO, the human resources director and two other gentlemen joined the group and headed down to the concourse level of Two World Trade Center. If they had continued on and exited the building, all of their lives would have been spared. As it was, that's not the way it happened.
"As soon as we reached the concourse level, the security guard stopped us and said, 'Where are you going?' Stanley explained about seeing the fire in Tower One. According to Stanley, the guard said, "Oh, that was just an accident. Two World Trade is secured. Go back to your office."
That turned out to be fatal advice--aside from Stanley, Delise was the only one of that group to survive. "We were joking, and I told [Human Resources Director] Brian Thompson, 'This is a good time to think of relocating this building--it's not safe anymore.' " Stanley headed back to his office, but before he got there, he told Delise, that with the events of the day, she should go home and relax.
Thompson went to the 82nd floor, the president and CEO went to the 79th floor and Stanley got out on the 81st floor. When Stanley got to his office, his phone was ringing. "It was someone from Chicago calling to find out if I'm watching the news," he said. He told the caller everything "was fine."
But everything wasn't fine--far from it. As Stanley was talking, he looked up and saw American Airlines Flight 11 heading straight for him. "All I can see is this big gray plane, with red letters on the wing and on the tail, bearing down on me," said Stanley. "But this thing is happening in slow motion. The plane appeared to be like 100 yards away, I said 'Lord, you take control, I can't help myself here.' "
Stanley then dove under his desk. "My Testament [Bible] was on top of my desk," explained Stanley. "I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Lord was going to take care of me once I got there." As he curled into a fetal position under his desk, the plane tore into the side of the building and exploded.
Miraculously, Stanley was unhurt. However, he could see a flaming wing of the plane in the doorway of his department. He knew he needed to get out of his office and the building fast. But, he was trapped under debris up to his shoulders. "Lord, you take control, this is your problem now," he recalled praying. "I don't know where I got this power from, but the good Lord, He gave me so much power and strength in my body that I was able to shake everything off. I felt like I was the strongest man alive."
All the while, Stanley was asking to the Lord to spare his life. "I'm crying and I'm praying, 'Lord, I have things to do..., I want to see my family, Lord, help me through.' "
Stanley's office resembled a battle zone--walls flattened into dusty heaps, office equipment strewn violently, flames flickering about and rubble everywhere. "Everything I'm trying to climb on [to get out] is collapsing and I'm going down," he said. "I'm getting cuts and bruises, but I'm saying, 'Lord, I have to go home to my loved ones, I have to make it, You have to help me.' "
Suddenly Stanley saw the light of a flashlight. For a moment, it stunned him. "What were the chances of someone bringing a flashlight to this floor?," he thought. "My first gut reaction was, 'This is my guardian angel--my Lord sent somebody to save me!' "
Stanley began screaming, "I see the light, I see the light." But after clawing his way through the debris, he realized that he couldn't get out--all the exits were blocked and his "guardian angel" couldn't get to him--a wall was between him and the staircase. "He can't get to me and I can't get to him, and by this time I can't breathe," Stanley said. "I don't know if it was sulfur or what [burning jet fuel, perhaps], but I can smell this thing. I got down on my knees and said, "Lord, You've got to help me. You've brought me this far, help me to get to the staircase."
But then Stanley did something surprising. While praying on his knees, Stanley called out to the man behind the wall, "There's one thing I got to know, do you know Jesus?" The man replied he went to church every Sunday. Then they prayed together to enable them to break through the wall. "I got up, and I felt as if a power came over me," said Stanley. "I felt goose bumps all over my body and I'm trembling, and I said to the wall, 'You're going to be no match for me and my Lord.' " Moments later, he punched his way through the wall and, with the help of the man on the other side, was able to squirm his way through the hole in the wall. "The guy held me and embraced me and he gave me a kiss and he said, 'From today, you're my brother for life.' "
But the danger wasn't over. The man on the other side of the wall, who introduced himself as Brian, was an older gentleman and they still had 81 floors to walk down, with the building on fire and, unknown to them, in danger of collapse. "We hobbled our way down, and at every floor we stopped to see if anybody was there, but nobody was..., but a man was on the floor, and his back was gone, and he was covered in blood."
Stanley asked to be allowed to carry the man out, but a security guard told him it would be better to send somebody up. When they finally made it down to the concourse, only firefighters were there. "They were saying, 'Run! Run! Run!', they were telling us to run out, but they were not concerned about themselves," he said.
Stanley and Brian would have run from the building, but now the concourse was surrounded with fire. Wetting themselves under the building's sprinkler system, they held hands and ran through the flames to safety to Trinity Church about two blocks away. "I wanted to go to the church to thank God," Stanley explained, "As soon as I held onto the gate of that church, the building [World Trade Center Tower Two] collapsed."
Stanley and Brian made there way safely out of the danger area. Before they parted, Stanley gave his business card to Brian in hopes of contact at a later time, and said, "If I don't see you, I'll see you in heaven."
Cut and bloodied, with clothes tattered and wearing a borrowed shirt, Stanley finally made it home hours later to his wife Jennifer and his two girls, Stephanie (age 8) and Caitlin (age 4). "I held my wife and my two children and we cried," said Stanley. After thanking God for sparing his life, Stanley told God whatever he did, it will always be for His glory. "I'm so sore, but every waking moment, I say 'Lord, had you not been in control, I would not have made it.'
"For some divine reason, I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the good Lord's mighty hand turned the plane a fraction from where I was standing," said Stanley. "Because when it crash-landed, it was just 20 feet from me. I don't care who would rationalize--what people would say now or years from now, but I know it was the handiwork of the Lord that turned that plane. My Lord Jesus is bigger than the Trade Center and His finger can push a plane aside!"
Dan Van Veen
Let me make this as clear as possible. Give it up - leave it alone, and forget about it. None of us will comment about the accuracy of the guesses for obvious reasons. None of us will say if any of them are correct, or that all of them are in error. Nor will we any longer tolerate such activity because it violates our stated purpose.
I will say this and make it abundantly clear once again. Anyone who sends such guesses runs afoul of our stated policy and attempts to undermine that policy. Those who send such FRmail or conduct ‘analysis’ to undermine that policy are subject to a week in the cooler for cause if caught doing so.
Clear enough? I hope so - because I will make it stick. Fair warning, do not tempt or goad moderators. Similar to another maxim, “It is not nice to tempt,” moderators (-:
You do highlight a good point though. -- Everyone here has experienced unfair generalizations on their politics.
Why don't we all give it a rest? I'll stop if you'll stop.
Let me make this as clear as possible. Give it up - leave it alone, and forget about it.None of us will comment about the accuracy of the guesses for obvious reasons. None of us will say if any of them are correct, or that all of them are in error. Nor will we any longer tolerate such activity because it violates our stated purpose.
I will say this and make it abundantly clear once again. Anyone who sends such guesses runs afoul of our stated policy and attempts to undermine that policy. Those who send such FRmail or conduct ‘analysis’ to undermine that policy are subject to a week in the cooler for cause.
Clear enough? I hope so - because I will make it stick. Fair warning, do not tempt or goad moderators. Similar to another maxim, “It is not nice to tempt,” moderators (-:
Somehow the personal mail had the same heading as this and I misconstrued that to mean that "here" was here.
I can attest to that and to anti-whites comments (eg, white trash or white trailer trash). If the phrase "white trash" is acceptable, seems to me that it would be ok to use the phrase "black trash" although I've never used it until now and only to make a point. Clearly the intent of such phrases is to demean and belittle. Just tonight I even saw someone with the nickname "white trash redneck. " Is such a nick appropriate?
PS: as this thread is getting rather long and the Admin wish to respond, I'd appreciate it very much if he/she does so by FReep mail. Thank you.
PPS: is it possible to maintain a given thread to, say, 100k bytes or, alternatively, to be able to "refresh" by adding the latest posts. Is this feature in Jim's future software programming?
The tolerance of which has been lowered, which is the point of this post. It will be wise for all to keep that in mind.
I meant no controversy nor did I mean to question your points (as you will see from my previous posts on this thread). Rather, there was an implied query as to my prefered form of Freeping, and I simply explained that I enjoy both deeply intellectual discussions and the occasional brawl. That is all I meant by the post.
Extended news is that news that's important, but doesn't deserve breaking or front page.... like followup info on a story or background information to a story.....
Ask yourself before posting, where would this article be in my newspaper? The front page, or somewhere in the back. If you say 'in the back', chances are it's extended news.
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