Pakistani ex-general warns of uprising, war - Says US asks, is Pakistan is on their side or China's

Reuters ^ | 9-17-01

[jbstrick]

We are not trying to supress the Afghans. Just trying to kill a select few of their residents.

[Cagey]

Says US asks, is Pakistan is on their side or China's

Sounds like something got lost in the translation.

[billbears]

This is part of their new strategy to contain Chinese power," he said, referring to Pakistan's other main military ally. "The United States control the western flank of the Gulf but in the east, Iran is not their ally and the Taliban aren't anymore

That's what's bothering me about this whole thing. Don't get me wrong. I want Bin Laden 'dead or alive' as President Bush said. But there's something nagging at me about the deals the Chinese signed with the Taliban and with Russia a few months ago that this whole deal is a nasty setup and could turn into something much much larger

[super175]

Sounds like a case for utter humiltation of that region. Nuclear strikes would solve a lot of our problem. Keep hitting them until they like us.

[GOP_1900AD]

You are very astute. Let's hope that all the public posturing by Bush et al is disinfo and not the real plan.
If it is the real plan, then once again the US will be making a geopolitical blunder of astronomical proportions. You
never know how many dumb mercantilist globalist hicks with MBAs have read "The Lexus and The Olive Tree" and
"The End Of History" one too many times!!

[Travis McGee]

"Chasing the Apaches witht the US Army is like hunting deer with a brass band." ~~General Crook

Afganistan is landlocked, 500 miles from the sea, and surrounded by regimes and peoples unfriendly to the US. It has thousands of mountains above 10,000 feet. If you think catching Apaches was tough....

[cibco]

I agree...

[Dog Gone]

This isn't about whether Pakistan will hold democratic elections next year. We would gladly trade those for stability in the government right now.

We gave Pakistan a choice. Either they are with us, or we will consider them to be harboring terrorists, because some of bin Laden's camps are in the wilds of Pakistan. We offered them aid and an improved relationship with us if they helped, and we promised them a terrible cost if they refused.

This has nothing to do with a position against China. That's not even remotely a possibility for the long term. This is about logistical support for a search and destroy mission in Afghanistan.

[Lake]

>>This has nothing to do with a position against China. That's not even remotely a possibility for the long term. This is about logistical support for a search and destroy mission in Afghanistan.

If the US simply goes to hunt some terrorits, the operation has no strategic value. The 9/11 tragedy has given the US an oppotunity to sever the Sino-Pakistan alliance and encircle China from its west. The stability in sounth Asia may not serve the US's interets. An all-out war in China's backyard may shift China's focus on Taiwan.

[LenS]

We need to rephrase that: "Pakistan, are you on our side or are you about to die?"

[Dog Gone]

The goal isn't to get into an all-out war to distract China. We don't even want to get into an all-out war.

The goal is to use whatever force is necessary to destroy the organized terrorist networks which have been plagueing civilization since the 1970's.

If this results in better relations with Pakistan and an end to cooperation between those two countries, terrific.

[Mat_Helm]

But as the great camanchee indian fighter Moes Harper said in the "Searchers" (@1956 directred by Ford with John Wayne):

"For that which we are about to receive, we thank Thee oh Lord".

Shortly before shooting indians atempting to cross the rio grande river.

OOOoohhh oooooo booo woooo wooooo woooo.............thank you kindly...thank you kindly......

[KC Burke]

Until I looked carefully at a regional map, I hadn't realized that Afghanistan and China actually had a small common border. I had thought that Pakistan was entirely between the two (as well as the former Soviet block countries--Tajikistan et al.)

The region will definately be hot if Pakistan doesn't support our play.

[Dog Gone]

Yes, they do have a very small common border, but I have a hunch the two countries aren't connected by anything bigger than a bad dirt road, and perhaps much less.

The Chinese wouldn't like a large American presence in Afghanistan, except that they'd probably welcome our inability to conquer it. They'd probably supply the bands of Afghans who would make our stay miserable.

But I don't think they'd have to worry about us having a permanent presence there because nobody in their right mind wants to be there.

I think our strategic goal should be to seek and destroy terrorist networks there, capture and preferably kill bin Laden, destroy the Taliban, and then let the Afghans fight over the spoils while we get out of there. And I'd tell that to China up front.

[Lake]

>>Yes, they do have a very small common border, but I have a hunch the two countries aren't connected by anything bigger than a bad dirt road, and perhaps much less.

The border is about 65 miles long and China does trade with Afghanistan for about 30 million US dollars a year here. I believe there must be a highway, since this used to be the "silk-road" linking the east and west in ancient times.

[Zorobabel]

"Nobody has ever succeeded in suppressing the Afghans."

The Taliban seems to have done a good job of it.

[Dog Gone]

Although the "Silk Road" was the term for several different trade routes linking east and west, and Afghanistan was on the route of at least one of them, my understanding is that the actual routes for the caravans entering China were primarily south of the present border in present day Pakistan. Interesting point, though. I wonder what the two countries exchange.

[KC Burke]

I guess my point is that China has a tighter relationship with Pakistan than we do. Pakistan is supporting the Taliban. We hit the Taliban...China supports Pakistan in their support of the Taliban, and claims justification based not just on Pak/China ties but also the common border.

I have another thread going showing the Panjshir Valley where the rebels are, its relationship to the linking narrow of land that extends to the Chinese Border, its relationship to Pakistan and thirdly, to Kabul and the Taliban. Panjshir is in the middle of them....not North of them. See this map and then go to the thread on Panjshir stronghold by going to that thread on Panjshir

[Lake]

>>I wonder what the two countries exchange

I don't know. This is Chinese offical figures (in thousand US dollars):

Year	Total	Expot	Import
1994	39,140	27,370	11,770
1995	33,080	31,600	1,664
1996	34,760	31,300	345
1997	33,080	32,470	61

The figures show about 10,000 US dollars worth of goods going from China to Afghanistan everyday. That's why I believe there must be a road.