Posted on 09/16/2001 8:43:59 PM PDT by RnMomof7
"So this could not be a judgment for sin.
I don't believe it is either. But I do believe He removed His protection from this country. This left the door wide open for satan and his gang who produced all of this.
"Why God did this ? "
There can only be one answer. It is called "rebellion" and " sin "
What other reason could there be ?
God is Soverign. He did not wish it to happen. All He did was remove His protection. The devil satan and sin is responsible for the rest
God bless
don
I agree with most of what you wrote, but not all of it.
This business of claiming evil events to God's specific judgement of our country, or any other, is really an attempt to be prophetic, that is, to add to the Scriptures what is not there.
Scripture contains prophecy, but not all prophecy is in Scripture. Romans 12:6, 1 Cor 11:4-5, 12:10, 12:28, and 14:1-5 (see verse 5 especially), and the Church Fathers (the Didache especially) counsel that prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit which continues to exist. It is simply the gift of speaking divine wisdom to God's people.
Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets," so, unless you believe extra-biblical revelation exists today, to claim to know that any event is the directly caused action of God, and to know what His purpose was in that action, is to claim to be a prophet.
And there's nothing wrong with that. However, I would caution anyone who claims to know any of those things (as distinct from suspecting them), barring a private revelation, that God's ways are often mysterious.
All of the things that most Christians are saying about our country's moral degeneration, it's lack of character, and more is true. But our country is not Israel, and all of the Bible quotes the "God's Judgement" folks are using pertain specifically to Israel.
And Israel is paradigmatic for every nation. God rewards fidelity and punishes disobedience in every nation. However, there is a gotcha that is found only in the Catholic Bible. In 2 Maccabees 6, after reciting the evils perpetrated against the Jews by their Greek conquerors, the author states:
... [R]ecognize that these punishments were designed not to destroy but to discipline our people. In fact, not to let the impious alone for long, but to punish them immediately, is a sign of great kindness. For in the case of the other nations the Lord waits patiently to punish them until they have reached the full measure of their sins; but he does not dea in this way with us, in order that he may not take vengeance on us afterward when our sins have reached their height.
God did not cause it. He allowed it to happen. I was not punishment. It was a slight withdrawal of his protective hand. He does not let these things happen without purpose.
If you have children or pets you have done the same thing as God on a smaller scale. There has been a danger present that you decided not to protect your children from.
In order to teach him/her a valuable lesson, you purposely refrained from protecting them in order to strengthen or teach them something very important. To help them survive and grow you allowed hurt to enter into their lives even though you could have prevented it, you just chose not to. The only difference here is we are talking about death which is the ultimate boo boo for the physical self.
I think God looks at death differently. He knows we all will die, the question for us (not him) is when. If it will save 280,000,000 people or compel a nation to repent or if it will save us from more terrorist attacks causing even more suffering, who is to say what he may permit? Would he allow us to die a day, a week, or a year earlier?
Of course no one has the mind of God but he does reveal so many things in his word and in our lives so that we might understand.
I do believe God is more concerned with the living. His concern is with the pain and suffering caused by death not the death itself. He is also concerned and angry at the people that caused us this pain. He will heal the pain and avenged these deaths if we turn to him and ask him to. He will deliver us. I do believe God allowed this tragedy but that in no way means he made it happen. That's how I see it anyway.
Do you believe that God can and does issue judgement? Were there kids killed in Sodom?Will kids be killed when Babylon falls?
There's a remarkable narcissism in those who see others lives that are torn asunder as simply a "warning" from their "loving" god. As if those who died existed and only to steer you to the straight and narrow - as you interpret it, of course.
Even worse, people who make this assertion sound like battered wives. "He didn't mean to hurt no one. It's my fault, really. I made him knock my teeth out."
Utterly twisted and absent any sense of morality.
Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets," so, unless you believe extra-biblical revelation exists today, to claim to know that any event is the directly caused action of God, and to know what His purpose was in that action, is to claim to be a prophet.
All of the things that most Christians are saying about our country's moral degeneration, it's lack of character, and more is true. But our country is not Israel, and all of the Bible quotes the "God's Judgement" folks are using pertain specifically to Israel.
Hank would you consider that Revelation is a prophetic book and might meet the requirement of Amos3:7?
Rev8:9And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 18:10Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 18:11And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 18:12The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 18:13And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 18:14And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. 18:15The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 18:16And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 18:17For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18:18And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like unto this great city! 18:19And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 18:20Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
The twin Towers were a city ..50,000 people worked within her walls..
I will say that God has consistantly poured out His wrath..without prophetic warning...there was no prophet in Sodom,there was no prophetic warning in Babel,there was no prophetic warning in the days of Noah
God acted ..
I believe this is a call ,a wake up..what say you Hank
BTW thaks to both for the Amos3 quote!
Uhhh...of course, you must first actually believe in a loving God for it to make any sense at all.
I agree that we take our human prejustice into discussions of death..I do not believe that God views death as a "punishment"
But I think we simplify this by saying that "God allowed it"
As well, the straight and narrow is a Biblical term without room for "interpretation"; though I know quite well you have your take on morality based on your Mencken quote.
Here comes that battered wife syndrome I mentioned.
People here suggest children and innocents died by fire - because of a 'loving' God?
Do tell me what kind of love that is.
As well, the straight and narrow is a Biblical term without room for "interpretation"; though I know quite well you have your take on morality based on your Mencken quote.
Proving the old adage about assumptions.
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