Is It Time for a New "Concealed Carry" Category.........for Air Travel?

self | 09/11/01 | RightOnline

[TERMINATTOR]

Yeah! We were discussing this on another thread. I think the "security" regulations in effect at the airports, cost hundreds if not thousands of lives today. Most, if not all of those hijackings, could have been stopped by armed passengers and crew.

Who says pilots and air marshals are better marksmen than the passengers and stewardesses? Maybe glasser safety slugs or similar are a good idea on planes. But security should be eliminated at airports. Todays tragedies demonstrated how dangerous security is to honest people. The terrorist/criminals had no trouble getting their knives aboard. Security just prevented honest people from defending themselves and their country.

[Don Myers]

Yeah, they are not going to trust civilians with firearms on the aircraft. Of course, they can't keep terrorists with weapons off the planes, but they still won't allow concealed carry on the planes.

[RightOnline]

Wouldn't work. Reasons are obvious. All or nothing. Either all major carriers, at a minimum, agree to such a policy or it's a waste, IMO. It's true that if all but, say, USAirways agreed.........then USAirways would lose passengers, one would think.

I understand your "free market" approach (if put forth with a bit of acidity), but licensing passengers to carry weapons would never, ever be something decided by one airline or another at a time. It would have to be industry wide. Hell, if those a**holes can get together in a New York minute and agree to "no smoking on domestic flights", then the precedent has been set.

[xm177e2]

I think the stewardesses and stewards too.

What if they overpower one? Then they have a gun.

Already have 'em; have had 'em for years. Piece of cake to get through.........believe me.

Then we need stronger doors, and they need to be locked for the majority of the time.

In the meantime we'll have to settle with putting policemen (or "Sky Marshalls") on the planes.

Why not use extremely weak calibers, with full auto fire? An SMG firing .22 safety slugs at a very slow rate of fire (for an SMG, maybe 400 shots/min) would make control very easy, limit the chance of blowing out a window, and still give the firepower necessary to drop anyone who wasn't wearing armor on their face. If the rate of fire was too high, several bullets at once could slam into a window, breaking it.

[RightOnline]

Maybe, maybe not. You might be right, but it's always easiest to simply say "Won't happen. Fuhgeddaboutit. No way." What I'm interested in at this point is this: Is it a good idea? Let's worry about national mindsets later, in the "implementation phase".

[xm177e2]

Hey, Wanker, have you ever heard of GLASER SAFETY SLUGS? Those things were DESIGNED to be fired in airplanes. Move to the back of the class.

[RightOnline]

I'm a former heavy driver with 1800 hours in 707 airframes. What's your quals, smart ass?

[FITZ]

What I don't understand is if the terrorists did just have knives, and there were 200+ passengers, why the passengers didn't get up and overpower the terrorists. It'd be better for a few people to get some stab wounds than lose control of the plane.

[William Tell]

My recollection from the "sky-marshal" era is that it worked very well. I seem to recall a couple of incidents in which there was gunfire and then suddenly there was no longer a problem with US domestic flights.

Am I just remembering this wrong?

[RightOnline]

Gotta call it a night, folks. I'm a workin' stiff. Please keep this thread bumped, and thanks to the overwhelming majority of you for reasoned, intelligent discussion and criticisms of this concept.

[RightOnline]

Good question...........and I honestly don't know. Did we try the Air Marshal concept for a while?? I truly don't know.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

Wanker, do you exist only to post stomach-churning nonsense? I have NEVER seen a reasonable post from you- are you retarded, or are you really only 9 years old??? (And I mean that in the NICEST POSSIBLE WAY! ROTFLMAO)

[jwh_Denver]

Just for air travel? Anybody who is law abiding and no mental health problems along with a gun accuracy test should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon in most places. (Very few exceptions)

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

Wanker has watched "GOLDFINGER:" too many times- apparently it is the only movie he owns. He thinks that a .38 inch hole in the fuselage will cause explosive decompression, and SUCK HIM OUT!

Hey, I'm willing to try it. When can WANKER be available for the test flight???

By the way, I have been in aircraft with holes a LOT bigger than 0.38"- and I'm still here. They seal well with duct tape.

[Clint N. Suhks]

I like your idea, but what about the idiot who wants to commit suicide and doesn’t use rounds that over-penetrate?

[William Tell]

RightOnline asked: "Did we try the Air Marshal concept for a while?? I truly don't know.

They were called "sky-marshals". Perhaps it was during the 60s or 70s ( old-timers disease, don't you know!) For a while it seemed like some nut was sky-jacking a plane to Cuba every week. Some guy who called himself "D.B. Cooper" held a plane for ransom and bailed out of a commercial jet with the dough.

I can't remember how long the program lasted, but things seemed to calm down.

[AKbear]

I have no problem with pilots carrying.

I work with pilots every day. I have been working on flight simulators and with pilots in some fashion for over 20 years. I know pilots. They are no different from any other segment of the population. There are some I would trust with a gun, others I wouldn't trust with nail clippers.

Pilots are not special people. Maybe fighter pilots, to some extent, but airline pilots are just doing a job to pay their bills. It's not a hard job, anyone with decent hand to eye coordination can do it. Most of the job is boring and repetitious. I would be willing to bet if it was put to a vote, they would overwhelmingly vote down the idea that they should be armed and have the responsibility to protect themselves and the passengers.

I really don't get the opposition to allowing CCW on planes. With the statistically miniscule number of CCW holders who break the law, CCW holders as a group are the most trustworthy and law abiding people in the country. These people as a whole are the ones I would trust with guns on board a plane more than even the pilots or flight attendants.

If necessary, some type of ammo could be mandated to minimize the possiblity of a rapid decompression at altitude. At the altitude the airplanes today were flying, a hole from a bullet would not have done any damage to speak of. It is only really dangerous if the plane is pressurized and flying at altitude.

[Skibane]

I like your idea, but what about the idiot who wants to commit suicide and doesn’t use rounds that over-penetrate?

He immediately gets his wish, courtesy of about a dozen other passengers who DID use rounds that don't overpenetrate. Next, one of the flight attendants gets out the duct tape and starts Spacklin' holes...

[xm177e2]

Maybe they didn't know it was a suicide flight, they just thought they were being taken hostage.