N. Ireland - IRA's lefty roots still showing

Irish Echo ^ | 7 September 2001 | Jack Holland

[Norn Iron]

I thought these quotes fitted us in NI to a T, especially the second one. They might also apply to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict too.

[Norn Iron]

I fear I'm starting to agree with you too much.

Don't worry. The feeling will soon pass!!

[Malcolm]

I'm part Irish, but would never send a penny to the IRA. Those Americans that do should be ashamed of themselves. If you're Catholic, and live in Ulster, and don't like it, move to the Irish Republic! Of all the complete wastes of time in the world, this has got to be the most tragedic and pointless. All of the people who have been killed or hurt, and the solution is so obvious. If the words of the immortal Sam Kinnison, "IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN THE IRISH REPUBLIC, MOVE TO IT!"

[Dumb_Ox]

If you're Catholic, and live in Ulster, and don't like it, move to the Irish Republic! Of all the complete wastes of time in the world, this has got to be the most tragedic and pointless. All of the people who have been killed or hurt, and the solution is so obvious. If the words of the immortal Sam Kinnison, "IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN THE IRISH REPUBLIC, MOVE TO IT!"

Which would require abandoning one's ancestral homeland, in a country where folk still emphasize marrying within one's home county. May I ask why you don't say "If you want to live in the UK, move to Britain" to the unionists?

[driftless]

It goes back to the seventeenth century when the English transplanted Protestants from Scotland to Ulster or what is considered present-day Northern Ireland (there are actually nine counties in Ulster, six in Northern Ireland). The Protestant English gave special favors to the Protestant landowners. Eventually Northern Ireland became about two thirds Protestant in population. The Protestant ascendancy was assured by their victory over Irish nationalists at the Battle Of The Boyne in 1691 with the support of William of Orange of the Netherlands. Ever since then and with the creation of the Orange Order, Ulster Protestants have been called Orangemen. Ireland became part of Britain around 1795. When Irish nationalists early in the twentieth century made progress in creating an independent Irish republic, Protestants in Ulster feared domination by what would be a mostly Catholic country. After the creation of the Irish Free State in 1921, Northern Ireland was created to give Protestants control over a country of their own. In the process, the Catholics (about one third of the population) in Northern Ireland were treated as second class citizens. The struggle for civil rights for Ulster Catholics in the 1960's gave way to reemergence of the IRA and the creation of the Provisional IRA (PIRA) which was much more violent and Marxist than the old IRA. The Protestants have their own para-military groups like the Ulster Defense Force (UVF) and a few others. Both Catholic and Protestant paramilitary groups have rogue elements who like killing and crime more than they like progress and peace. The PIRA remains ostensibly a Marxist organization opposed to both British control of Ulster and the resurgent capitalist Republic Of Ireland. The Protestants in Ulster still fear Catholic domination.

[Norn Iron]

Sorry, but we are all entitled to live here [NI] and we have to agree to differ on those things we can't agree on.

We signed up to an Agreement that was relatively fair to the two competing aspirations but the Governments, sadly, paid more heed to the demands of the terrorists than the needs of the rest and the terrorists have been 'taking over' local communitities, Mafia-style.

[Norn Iron]

Your history of NI and the region prior to 1960 is way, way out!!

Ulster History is a simple introduction to the history of the region. It has been compiled by someone from the unionist side of the house but, as histories go, is reasonably fair.

[Bella_Bru]

Lets sing the praises of the righteous Protestants who bombed schoolgirls the other day. Such noble, strong, brave men! (swoon,swoon). < /sarcasm>

[Norn Iron]

'The English' turns out to be a Scot, James I [VI of Scotland] who became the monarch of the Great Britain and Ireland after the death of Elizabeth. The old name for the Maiden City in his time was written Derrie - in the Scottish style. After being developed by the London guilds it became Londonderrie in the 1640s before changing to Londonderry/Derry.

[Norn Iron]

Let's not. Thank goodness things are starting to settle down. That part of Belfast has had a very troubled 35 years and it will be very difficult for the local people to reach an accommodation.

[Bella_Bru]

I don't think they will ever reach a lasting peace. And that's sad. Those children who were at that school learned a nasty lesson about fear and hate. It's a cycle that keeps perpetuating itself.

[Norn Iron]

There was also the young boy who was chased by a car driver, run over and killed. It happened not far from Ardoyne and has added to the hate factor.

[Norn Iron]

NEWSHOUND - bookmark this site for Northern Ireland News

[Youngblood]

You're right, Norn Iron, the Agreement is the only way forward. Some of the people on this board seem to think that if Britain would just pull out, then all would be rosy in the garden. They seem to forget the small matter of almost one million people who want no part of a united Ireland. Are they just going to go quietly? The vast majority of Irish people just want whatever accomodation which will bring peace. Unification will not: it will just result in a reversal of paramilitary roles in relation to the state. Powersharing with involvement of the two governments is the only way. Republicans must accept that a united Ireland will not bring peace. Unionists must accept Irish involvement.

[Norn Iron]

Logic would suggest that we should have joint sovereignty and shared expenses though Dublin might resent paying their share!!

[driftless]

I'm way off? I doubt it. There have been different rulers of Britain like James of Scotland, but basically the English have been the masters of Ireland over the centuries. You can maybe cite where I'm wrong on particulars here and there, but those are the facts.

[Norn Iron]

James wasn't the ruler of Britain, he was the ruler of Great Britain and Ireland. I think if you look at the pedigrees of the monarchs you'll find that they were a fairly cosmopolitan breed.

It just so happens that the centre of power for the two islands has been in London for most of the past 800 years. Would the history of the Empire have been very different if it had been in Dublin, Edinburgh or Cardiff?

[Youngblood]

Britain and Ireland were united in January 1801 under the Act of Union 1800.

UVF stands for Ulster Volunteer Force, the name adopted in the 1960s from the original force of the 1910s which had been set up to resist the imminent granting of home rule (which was held up by the outbreak of WW1).

The Battle of the Boyne occurred in 1690.

[Youngblood]

"Logic would suggest that we should have joint sovereignty and shared expenses though Dublin might resent paying their share!!"

A nice jump in taxes would sort out the Republicans from the Unionists in the south!

[Norn Iron]

N. Ireland - Behind the Smokescreen