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The Grand Deception
Worldnet Daily ^ | 6 SEP 01 | J.R. Nyquist

Posted on 09/06/2001 10:11:16 AM PDT by tomakaze

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To: rightofrush
I've actually read the man's writings. Leaving aside a bizarre fantasy piece where America is saved from foreign domination by a man on horseback, who proceeds to "liquidate" all who dare defy his omnipotent will--a man he extols in terms reminiscient of the worst sort of hagiography Stalin got, and for the same deeds--he extols the BATF at Waco as selfless heroes. Looks like you're dispensing BS.
101 posted on 09/06/2001 4:18:13 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Stavka2

Russia Seeks More Time to Disarm

By JUDITH INGRAM
Associated Press Writer
September 6, 2001, 12:19 PM EDT

MOSCOW -- A top official acknowledged Thursday that Russia had delayed destroying its chemical weapons stocks but said Moscow is committed to doing so and deserves a five-year extension of an international deadline.

A former Russian prime minister, Sergei Kiriyenko now oversees the Volga River region, where five of Russia's seven chemical weapons storage sites are located. He also heads a new committee charged with leading the political effort to destroy Russia's 44,000 tons of chemical weapons, the world's largest arsenal.

Russia ratified the Convention on Chemical Weapons in 1997, committing itself to destroy the stockpile within a decade. But it had long complained that it could not afford the estimated $7 billion program despite pledges of aid from the United States, Europe and Canada.

Kiriyenko told reporters that until this year Russia had done too little to fulfill its obligations under the 1993 convention and the U.S. Congress had good reason to freeze its funding for the program over the last two years.

"We certainly understand that insofar as Russia, in the period from 1997 ... until 2000, did not devote itself to the problem, we ourselves are guilty," Kiriyenko said.

Now the Cabinet has approved a new, cheaper program that would allow Russia to destroy its arsenal by 2012, without having to seek international funding beyond what has already been pledged. The new program cuts the originally planned seven destruction sites to three, and halves the estimated cost to about $3.5 billion.

As evidence of the government's new attitude, Kiriyenko pointed out that Russia had transferred authority over the destruction effort from the defense ministry to a civilian agency, underlining its position that Russia no longer considered the weapons an active part of its military arsenal.

The Russian government devoted six times more funds to the program this year than last, and Prime Minister Mikhail Kasyanov has agreed to a further increase in next year's budget, Kiriyenko said.

This year, Russia completed destruction of the detonators used for its chemical weapons, and it is close to completing elimination of its stocks of phosgene, a so-called choking agent that disables or kills by making the lungs fill with fluid, Kiriyenko said. Destruction of these stocks is the least complex of all the weapons elimination processes.

But Russia will need five more years to complete the destruction, since some of the facilities have not even been built. Kiriyenko started Russia's campaign for a deadline extension in Tokyo earlier this week, and he is set to embark on a tour of the other Group of Seven capitals this month.

Copyright © 2001, The Associated Press


Just 5 more years! Honest!!!


Russia Adamant on ABM Treaty

By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV
Associated Press Writer
September 6, 2001, 2:44 PM EDT

MOSCOW -- Russia is ready to discuss U.S. concerns about missile threats but firmly stands for keeping the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov wrote in a book that hit Moscow bookstores Thursday.

The ABM treaty has "proven its central role in ensuring strategic stability," Ivanov said in his book, "The New Russian Diplomacy: Ten Years of the Country's Foreign Policy," which sums up Moscow's post-Soviet diplomatic activities.

Ivanov's firm reiteration of Russia's adherence to the ABM contrasted with a senior U.S. administration official's statement in Washington on Wednesday that Moscow may be on the verge of accepting the principle of limited anti-missile defense, which would violate the treaty.

Ivanov's views underlined once again how each of the two countries, while professing readiness to hear out the other, is convinced its own unbending stance will win out in the end.

President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed in July to discuss Washington's missile defense plans and deeper cuts in nuclear arsenals in a series of consultations. U.S. officials have made it clear they want the talks to move briskly, but the Russians favor prolonging the talks.

With the Pentagon still in the process of assessing how many nuclear weapons the United States needs, the consultations have brought no visible results yet. Kremlin officials have expressed irritation about the talks, saying Washington's failure to make specific proposals has made them pointless.

The consultations will continue this month, with Secretary of State Colin Powell, Undersecretary of State John Bolton and Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith talking separately with Russian delegations.

Putin is scheduled to again meet with Bush at the sidelines of the Asian economic summit in Shanghai next month, then visit the U.S. president at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, in November, but Russian officials and analysts have been skeptical of the chances for a quick compromise.

Oleg Chernov, deputy secretary of Putin's security council, told The Washington Post on Thursday that "it's impossible" that an agreement would be reached that quickly and said it would take at least another year to negotiate a compromise.

Chernov was unavailable for comment Thursday, and a spokesman for the Russian Foreign Ministry refrained from comment.

Alexander Pikayev, a military analyst for the Carnegie Endowment in Moscow, said no quick breakthrough in talks was likely.

"As long as the Pentagon is still busy with a review of U.S. nuclear forces, it's impossible to reach an agreement on missile defense and nuclear cuts by November," he said.

Russia has firmly opposed the U.S. intention to build a national defense against ballistic missiles, saying such a missile shield would tilt the military balance in the U.S. favor and undermine global stability. It has rejected U.S. arguments that the planned missile defense, aimed at threats from such nations as North Korea, is not intended equally to deter a massive strike of the kind Russia is capable of launching.

Ivanov argued in his book that the treaty allows "finding effective solutions to the problems related to spread of mass destruction weapons and missile technologies."

"Russia doesn't refuse to jointly assess the missile threats our American partners are talking about," Ivanov said, adding that "as of today these threats are purely hypothetical."

Copyright © 2001, The Associated Press


"these threats are purely hypothetical."

Would these commies lie to us?

102 posted on 09/06/2001 4:18:20 PM PDT by michigander
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To: Alexandre
This may be a voluntaty conglomerate of people united to oppose hate and arrogance of American loons. And it may be more solid that one Communist tried to put together.

To which they will reply, "See. We told you
communism wasn't dead."  Feh.  The US
government itself is the greatest suborner
of American liberty.  No one else even
need apply.   Self-destruction is easy.
Change is hard.

103 posted on 09/06/2001 4:30:55 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Diamond #56
New Lies for Old
by Anatoliy Golitsyn (Hardcover - December 1990) ... Mikhail Gorbachev in speech to the Politboro in 1987

Do you trust runaway KGB officer? Just two points:


104 posted on 09/06/2001 4:31:20 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: tomakaze #58
I think you're missing the point of the whole thing. The supposed "collapse" was theatre. nothing more.

Really? Have you been there? Did you see it all?

I had a chance to watch the collapse - not one you saw in 1991 but one that was clear for soviet people since 1975 or so. What you call a collapse was a moment when the mast of the ship wanished under the water. Ship was gone years earlier.

105 posted on 09/06/2001 4:35:36 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: exmarine #59
Right. BTW, A.Solzhenitsyn noted this leftist [=materialistic] shift in USA when he spend some time here.
106 posted on 09/06/2001 4:37:24 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: SodiumWarthog
(Turning a half-baked philosophy by a gloomy German who never held down a job into a form of government? - What were you Russians thinking?...)

This was an unfortunate coinsidense:


107 posted on 09/06/2001 4:53:34 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: Alexandre
Golitsyn defected in 1961. How the (expletive deleted) did a guy supposedly under a death sentence in the USSR and only SOMEWHAT trusted by the CIA (many considered him a Communist disinformation agent) get ahold of what would have been the MOST secret and sensitive document in the USSR in 1987?
108 posted on 09/06/2001 4:56:53 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: tomakaze
I've got an open mind, but this one is a bit of a stretch. The money-force of the New World Order suggests the re-birth of an enhanced version of Nazism, but the leftist angle defies me as being anything but a nostalgia movement.

However, having said that, what would you offer as convincing evidence of the leftist angle? The left is not generally thought of in terms of monetary greed.
109 posted on 09/06/2001 4:59:58 PM PDT by SKYDRIFTER
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To: rightofrush #90
Alexandre: Actually, most of Russian immigrants are more conservative then Americans.

rightofrush: That's why they're here.

Nope. They are here mostly for better jobs and secure retirement. BTW, many are ex-party members, but this hardly makes them more left.

Those who live in Russia are also no more 'red' than immigrants are. They just did not get invitation to the US. And crossing over North Pole is a bit more challenging than through Nogales AZ...

110 posted on 09/06/2001 5:00:28 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: jwh_Denver
Bump on #92!
111 posted on 09/06/2001 5:02:08 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: dorben #95
Unless I am mistaken , You do support them dont you ? you and _jim ? correct me if I am wrong on this .

Poohbah and _jim dare to support them?! Hey all, grabb your guns and go after those co-conspirators snakes!!!!</sarcasm>

112 posted on 09/06/2001 5:05:59 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: Alexandre
And crossing over North Pole is a bit more challenging than through Nogales AZ...

Bah! Eat polar bear meat, drink snow melt, carry an extra overcoat, NO PROBLEM!

113 posted on 09/06/2001 5:12:18 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Alexandre
Well , The question was posed up earlier in the thread , and I vaguely recall being on a thread with them of that nature . I could search , but I thought I would give him the opportunity to answer also .
114 posted on 09/06/2001 5:27:19 PM PDT by Ben Bolt
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To: Stavka2
that has lost all touch with Christ. With 40K denominations and growing and guitar music and group hugs, who has time for Christ...

Hey! Cool beans. Something we agree on.
115 posted on 09/06/2001 5:48:50 PM PDT by tomakaze
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To: michigander
Gee, lets do a hypothetical, now suppose that America in its infinite wisdom elects some one worse then Bill: Hillery. Now America also has this nifty little shield, whether it works or not is not the issue. Considering that Bill bombed countries with impunity, believing himself secure and that Hillery was his advisor on this, how much worse now if they have this "shield"? Or don't you know that America has a very long record of exterminating civilian populations in the name of progress, civilization, humility, humanity, children or what ever happens to be PC during the particular episode of history.

As for Chemical, hell, I just read that the Pentigon is planning on breeding new strains of Anthrax and other germ warfare, just for "defense" and "research" purpose, of course.

116 posted on 09/06/2001 6:03:16 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: michigander
But I'm sure to you, all us not so slant eyed, white Russians are just gooks and evil commies to butcher, rape and murder at a moment's whim for you superior beings.
117 posted on 09/06/2001 6:04:18 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: Alexandre
No different then Lunov who came to America in '93 (so much for running from Communism) and wrote a book, and made much from guilable Americans, about Russia invading on Y2K...still waiting for the invasion? Be good all you Russophobes, lock yourselves up in your bunkers, we'll tell you when the coast is clear, pravilna gaspodin?
118 posted on 09/06/2001 6:06:48 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: Poohbah
That's easy, he tuned in on his aluminum beani antena and read Gorbi's mind. He knew about the speach even before Gorbi wrote it.
119 posted on 09/06/2001 6:09:21 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
I understand some of these folks on FR have a TEN YEAR supply of MREs.

Hope they remembered the 10-year supply of laxatives to match...

120 posted on 09/06/2001 6:14:59 PM PDT by Poohbah
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