Posted on 07/18/2025 6:19:06 AM PDT by fwdude
...”...EMP’s may not affect a horse, but machine guns sure take them out of commission pretty quickly.”
very true, and so will a .45 ACP round.....one of the primary reasons for the development of and the acceptance by the U. S. Army Model of 1911 semi-automatic pistol was its .45 caliber round, which could take down a cavalryman’s horse, thus rendering him a foot soldier...
Yes, it wasn’t as “sanitary” as it is today. No one heard of “poo catchers” that they have on parade horses in the modern era. Animal poo all over the ground was just a part of life in the 19th and earlier centuries. I can’t imagine it.
We have an out of town guest who has never been to the Evening Parade at the Marine Barracks at 8th & I in DC. Is that more fluffery that you would abolish? How about the Army Band, the Old Guard and the Fife and Drum unit over at Fort Myer? Or ceremonial units scattered in appropriate locations across the country? Why do the services still have bands at all? They can just turn up the volume on a recording.
History and tradition are important in transmitting culture. The military has many older forts and bases with incredible historical significance. They can’t all be saved. Some can be transferred to local ownership and turned into parks.
But IMHO, it’s worth an extra effort to find an adaptive reuse if possible. Everything shouldn’t be in a suburban office park setting or a sprawling complex of mediocre modern buildings on some big base in the southwest.
Local pols always want to get their hands on the crown jewels. Don’t tell me that there wasn’t an appropriate modern reuse for the Presidio, for example ... but no, it was deemed more important to play kissy face politics with the San Francisco and California democrats, so that was sacrificed in the BRAC process. Given the huge military footprint in Newport News and Hampton Roads, there were many functions that could still have been housed at Fort Monroe, with accommodations for tourism in the fort itself. And then think about the military museums. Heck, who needs the military museum system anyhow? More fluff?
We are raising a generation of American kids who have been stripped of any sense of history and heritage. We should be holding onto some of the iconic sites just to plant the flag. The military isn’t the only battleground here; the same out-with-the-past attitude infects many agencies at all levels of government.
But Francis the Talking Mule too?!?
https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/army-navy-stolen-mule-mascot/
I would have to agree. Interesting history about how we used them in WWII in Burma and some other theaters. And even then, it was thought by civilians to be “quaint”, and nationally, we weren’t that far removed from horse culture.
Of course, even the mechanized Nazis were heavily dependent on horses later in the war.
“I can’t imagine it.”
Sometime perhaps go to San Francisco.
Exactly.
Correct.
Of course, the Arlington pols would probably be happy to take over Fort Myers and repurpose the site for low income housing. They’d probably move Arlington Cemetery too if they could get someone else to pay for it.
A lot of NOVA pols are at odds with the preservationists because Civil War battlefields are in the way of data centers, office parks and expanded commuter sewers for people who want to live 30 miles away from their jobs.
Government used to build for the future and act as a conservator of heritage. Now even the museums are infected with people who would replace Old Masters with graffiti artists because that is more relevant to the successor generation they are cultivating.
The environmentalists at least want to protect the national parks, and they tend to oppose urban sprawl. Credit where credit is due. But many of the enviros are hostile to history and heritage, so they are unreliable allies.
Horse units? Dang it, there should be a few ceremonial units around, just like there should be a few drum and bugle corps, and just as the U.S. Navy should keep the Constitution and Constellation afloat. Both are still in commission. Yes, it’s expensive to keep them alive. I’m willing to pay for it; get rid of the huge DEI complex if you are looking for savings.
LOOK UP “RECKLESS” A HORSE THE MILITARY USED.
SHE CARRIED AMMO & MEDICAL SUPPLIES & COULD GO ALMOST ANYWHERE.
Getting rid of those ceremonial horses would be a big mistake. Our history matters — not just where we’re going, but where we come from. America owes a lot to its past. If we start erasing the symbols and traditions that got us here, we risk losing something important.
Proper care and treatment is expensive.
A grand statement.
Stable, long-term ceremonial units, with regular performance schedules, that serve consistent large audiences - that ‘pay their way’ and serve the purposes of a superpower in their relations with their citizens and the national image to the world?
That’s not fluffery.
Tiny little groups tied to a few military posts, scrabbling for funding to portray the equivalent of John Ford western extras or civil war reenactors without the bellies and gray hair - primarily showing up to small local parades and rodeos to be flagbearers... with correspondingly tiny audiences...
It is waste and fluffery - and to assume it carries some kind of grand romantic view of tradition and service is self-delusion.
IMO.
“””””Animal poo all over the ground was just a part of life in the 19th and earlier centuries. I can’t imagine it.”””””
Oddities even in the 50s and 60s was that our dogs ran free and dog poo was everywhere, and any place that attracted picnics, camping and swimming, had lots of broken glass at a time when glass beer bottles were normal and breaking them or shooting them was normal, the cuts on children playing and wading on the water shores were dramatic and stitches were part of growing up, and stepping on boards with nails was not rare.
That is not exactly true.
The U.S. lost nearly 53,000 aircraft in operation during WWII, most of them due to automatic gunfire. Tens of thousands of airmen were lost.
Still, aircraft were sent into the cauldron day after day. Early in the war it was rare for a bomber crew to make their tour of 25 missions before they were shot to pieces.
If horses could have flown 400 miles per hour and carried five tons of bombs to drop on the enemy they would have been used throughout the war and beyond; regardless of losses.
Horses could not evolve but machine design did. Horses were never going to road march consistently more than six miles per hour and carry about 250 pounds.
In the cost/benefit calculation of killing the enemy the horse was not cost effective. Eliminating horses from combat was not to save the horses or the riders; it was done to reallocate resources to more lethal methods.
As far as eliminating a few ceremonial units, it does not amount to rounding dust in the budget. Eliminating ceremonial horse units is a misdirected effort to make some sort of statement about how smart the decision makers are.
It looks to me that decision makers see the use of the horse today as mostly by women and they want the military to be viewed as masculine. Nothing wrong with that but they are heading in a direction where future ceremonial units will feature stern young men in parade holding tiny electronic devices right shoulder arms.
Visiting relatives in Yugoslavia in the '70's was an eye-opener for a suburban American kid. Horse drawn carriages were still prevalent in the cities. They were usually "modern" with automotive axles. The summer aroma had a peculiar mix of flowers, crappy communist diesel bus exhaust, and pungent horse crap. Watch were you step crossing the street.
2 million a year. Thats not worth getting rid of tradition. I know we just cut a minuscule 9 billion, but 2 million?
There was quite a scandal regarding the mistreatment & neglect of the horses. Better to see them being adopted by people who’ll properly care for them.
They are not getting rid of the Arlington caisson horses.
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