Ukraine is a Disaster, Putin is the Moderate, & Truth is the Victim

Armstrong Economics ^ | 25 July 23 | Martin Armstrong

[freeandfreezing]

I doubt anyone who supports Ukraine is a "war enthusiast". But typically the first step in stopping an invasion is to defeat the invaders.

Imagine some criminals invaded your house. What should happen? I think the first step is to regain control of your house and defeat the home invaders. How about you?

Would you give them the first floor in return for a promise not to come upstairs?

[blitz128]

It has been strange , my favorite is razing cities in the name of Christianity, I’ll put one out there feel free to use trolls
Putin only destroyed the grain because it was nazi grain and he was protecting his brothers in Africa from it

[Mat_Helm]

Now you are starting another debate all together. Wow. Nobody said those weapons would stop a China invasion and you are ridiculous to go that direction. I trained Navy and Marine F/A-18 pilots for Naval warfare a few decades ago including the first use of Harpoons by Hornets. Our attack submarine fleet alone would decimate any Chinese Navy or amphibious operation, even though 35% of our attack subs are down for maintenance, overhaul, or refit. But who really knows or even wants to find out by projecting weakness like we are now as a nation.

The Pentagon has already put out its own warnings for needing those munitions in a protracted war over Taiwan. We are not the military power we were in the 1991 Gulf war. China has a sizable nayy now and almost double our fleet size. They have hypersonic missiles and I would not want to see us in a hot war as they would make a real mess of things.

[buwaya]

“endless supply of weapons to kill more people”

Exactly that. To kill more Russian soldiers, until they decide to go home.

[buwaya]

I worked on the Harpoon, 35 years ago. Metrology engineer-consultant. My only Navy system.

The Pentagon has been using the Ukraine ammo issue as leverage to get more units of what it really wants - as in those long range antiship/land attack missiles.

But that stuff is not what’s going to Ukraine.

The China problem is that they will try to take Taiwan. Not by amphibious assault, but by blockade. The USN and the neighbors will be obliged to run “Malta convoys” there. It will be highly unsafe. The real danger will be missile (cruise and ballistic) and sub attack.

Then there will be the need to protect Guam, Okinawa, and probably the Philippines from missile attack.

[buwaya]

Ìs not another debate, its the same one. It is disingenuous to say that the US is running out of ammo, risking a China war, and then dodge the question of “what ammo”?

[Mat_Helm]

Never that simple and historically not accurate. The DON-bass, Crimea, and eastern Ukraine is mostly ethnic Russian and always has been. Stalin gave the Ukraine border for Krushev who was Ukrainian. Ukraine was never a nation and those borders were drawn on a political map. A lot of Western Ukraine was once Poland. Russia was protecting ethnic Russians. Russia should not have invaded, but Zelensky started this mess with Western assurance of military support when he attacked and first and began killing ethnic Russians. The Russians have wanted to negotiate, but Biden and his handlers want war. Europe and Ukraine broke the Minsk agreement and never intended to hold to it. That is what started this mess. The majority of Ukrainians do not support this war or Zelensky which is why he called off elections. His own people will take him out to end this war.

[adorno]

your mythical boogeyman

Your post, and style of writing, and your communications skills...

tell me that....

you're a product of the very lacking public schools system.

Were you trying to say something?

[Firehath]

if it weren’t

for all the totalitarian marxist - communists

in the usa

aka diversitycrats

Russia would be

our greatest ally

let’s go back to pluralism

free speech - religious liberty

no state monopoly fascist church / state religion

putin outlawed the liberal marxist nazis in russia

we should too

separate them from govt

everything else too

[Mat_Helm]

Blockade theory is a farce. Laughable really and China would not attempt that. After the very first boat is sunk by either side you are in a total hot war at sea, land, and air with China and they know it. Their only chance would be an all out missile assault on Taiwan and then to land as many occupying troops as quickly as possible by sea or air. We know it and they know it.

Look up operation Praying Mantis. In one day (April 18, 1988) two Navy A6 Intruders and two A7 Corsair II's sent the entire Iranian navy to the bottom in the gulf war blockade oil tanker war.

[buwaya]

Blockade is to make the US blink.
It may very well do that. That’s your Biden problem right there.

An amphibious assault will hit the problem of limited landing beaches covered by 2000 artillery tubes, which Taiwan has. It will be a titanic slaughter.

[buwaya]

“operation Praying Mantis”

You aren’t going to sink the Chinese navy that easily. That’s why the Pentagon wants all those long range missiles.

All harbors are going to be covered with heavy SAM defenses and an integrated air defense system. And land based ballistic and cruise missiles to keep the USN at a distance.

[USA-FRANCE]

So Putin is the “moderate” because he invaded a sovereign nation?

And Ukrainians are “extreme” because they are defending their homeland against foreign aggression?

God, this WOKE mentality is getting out of hand now. Is all normal reasoning an old-fashioned thing of the past?

[Mat_Helm]

To kill more Russian soldiers, until they decide to go home.

For every Russian killed or wounded you have 4 to 5 Ukrainian casualties. Ukraine is losing a thousand men a day. They can't sustain that. It's really already over and you will never defeat Russia in this war. That is the insanity of this war. The killing needs to end now. If NATO escalates this in any way then you risk this go far beyond what anyone intended. Right now Syria is close to going hot. We have troops all over the north east of Syria. Russia and and Iran and Turkey have troops all over the whole country and especially the border with Israel. Russia could decide to make things go hot there as well.

I want to see this war ended immediately with a negotiated agreement. It is the right thing to do and you either do that or heat this ting up until WW3, there are no alternatives.

[Mat_Helm]

There is one alternative. Ukraine is going to lose unless this goes to WW3. The only alternative to a peace agreement is Russia will win and you will have Russian troops on the Polish border. It would be better to negotiate peace and still have a neutral Ukraine.

[buwaya]

“For every Russian killed or wounded you have 4 to 5 Ukrainian casualties.”

This is a huge assertion with no sound basis.

In any case the matter will be determined when one side or the other decide to stop fighting through a failure in morale.

“We have troops all over the north east of Syria. “

A tiny number of troops. And the US has a massive preponderance of firepower with which to support the Kurds. And everyone there knows it. A tempest in a teapot.

Re Israel -

The preponderance of military power is also absurdly skewed there as well.

The alternative is that the Russians go home, as they should. If you want peace and an end to adventurism this should also be your desire.

[Mat_Helm]

A Romanian ship was damaged hours ago by a Russian attack on the Ukrainian port of Reni along the Danube river. No injuries or deaths occurred, but the damaging of a NATO vessel could invoke article 5.

Today a Russian fighter damaged a U.S. Reaper Drone in Syria.

. All this talk of escalating with Russia is insanely driving us to a war nobody wants. I pray more sane people prevail soon before war expands and many people die.

[buwaya]

The Russians got careless with their poorly guided Iranian Shahid drones. They should not have been shooting so close to a neutral country.

It’s all just going into the running tab for postwar reparations.

[sport]

We, [the United States of America] are going to have a all out nuclear with Russia. We are headed for it day by day, step by step. It is the Biden Supporters know that they can prevent the World from learning what the Bio Labs in Ukraine contain. And this [the World learning what the Bio Labs contain] is what Biden supporters cannot allow to happen. And it will be a Neo Con wet dream come true. When it [all out nuclear war with Russia] will light off is the only question remaining to be answered/ And we will learn the answer to that soon enough.

[buwaya]

A lot of ethnic Russians, it seems, don’t want to be ruled from Moscow. The original vote for secession was approved even in those regions.

Zelensky did not “attack first”. There was an internationally monitored ceasefire line with those parts of Donetsk and Luhansk and there was no attack or encroachment on it. The Russian assertions on all this are bullshit.

The Russians/separatists broke the Minsk agreement because they would not allow Ukrainian forces to reoccupy the region and hold the border. Everyone knew the Minsk agreement was a dead letter from day 1, as a consequence.

“The majority of Ukrainians do not support this war or Zelensky”

Yet another heroic assumption based on nothing.