Posted on 11/17/2022 8:57:20 AM PST by dennisw
Do tell
“Up to 40% of the hydrocarbons emitted by road transport evaporate from the fuel systems of cars with gasoline engines.”
https://www.witpress.com/Secure/elibrary/papers/UT15/UT15018FU1.pdf
So you cite to me a Russian study promoting a surfactant as a remedy and calls MTBE the most volatile compound gasoline. Are you positive they have Evaporative Emission Controls in Russia. Give me a break.
We're fighting the war on poverty with a hearts and minds campaign......worked so well in Vietnam, Beirut, Global War on Terror.....
I do not buy that at all. If 30-40% of my gas was bleeding into my garage as a vapor, I would smell it big time.
The context to these loss comments was someone saying EV batteries lose 1%/day while not in use, as they do. All batteries lose the charge over time.
My car can sit for a month or longer with no measurable loss of fuel.
The quote doesn’t say that 30-40% of your gas is evaporating, it says that 30-40% of the hydrocarbon emissions are composed of products from evaporating gasoline, so obviously they are escaping the vehicle and not being 100% captured by the emissions system and recycled.
“My car can sit for a month or longer with no measurable loss of fuel.”
How do you know that? Have you measured it?
Well here’s another source where you can read about evaporative emissions if you think they don’t exist or are some Russian conspiracy theory:
https://www.automotive-iq.com/exhaust/articles/evaporative-emission-regulations-and-evap-systems
“There are several ways in which evaporative emissions can escape a vehicle, including permeation through the walls of a fuel tank and fuel hoses, losses through valves and fuel caps, as well as diurnal losses when the vehicle is at standstill caused by temperature changes.”
“Testing procedures and protocols vary significantly however, and limits on emissions vary throughout the world, as the map below shows. Euro 5/6 regulations continue the Euro 4 limits of 2 grams of evaporative emissions per day, but require a more demanding test fuel with 5% ethanol and imposing durability requirements.
Japanese emission standards for vehicles are jointly developed by two government ministries, the Ministry of the Environment (MOE) and the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport (MLIT). Evaporative emission limits in Japan are roughly in line with Euro 4 standards of 2 grams of emissions per day.
U.S. regulations (EPA stage II enhanced/CARB LEVII) limit evaporative emissions to 0.5 grams per day over a three day diurnal temperature profile.”
I’d say it’s pretty strange for all these countries to have limits on daily leakage from evaporating fuel if these modern emission systems are 100% effective at capturing these emissions.
I am quite confident of no losses. If gasoline dissapating from a sitting vehicle was a common feature, I would, at my advanced age, be quite familiar with it - as would anyone owning and operating a vehicle in the last 100 years or so.
Post internet mumbo jumbo as you will, it amounts to nothing more.
According to your own information let’s say a given gasoline tank contains 15 gallons, that’s 57204 grams of fuel. 2 grams amounts to a rounding error. 1% as was being discussed in the thread would be 572 grams, or as posited in you first post to me of 40% would be 22881 grams. Of course a vehicles’ Evaporative Emissions System is not a perfect containment vessel on a molecular level, buts it’s hardly the losing proposition you contend, I know, I know, maths are hard.
EV’s are about saving the planet the same way CoupFlu policy is about protecting public health.
Thermodynamic Modeling and Evaluation of Fuel Evaporation in Petrol Engine Tanks
And guess what...
...Additionally, the amount of fuel vapor was strongly dependent from the filling level in the tank. Upon increase of the filling level from 40 % to 90 % the fuel vapor evaporation reduced by about 33 %.
Meanwhile, guess what Deep States, plural, are making it harder and harder to do...
NONE of this is about saving the planet, is it.
Well, deny basic physics if you want, but the world is not going to comply with your ideas no matter how much you insist. Volatile liquids like gasoline are in a constant state of evaporation and humankind simply doesn’t possess the technology to contain it. We can’t even build a thermos bottle that can prevent losses from a stable liquid like water, much less build a complex vehicle with dozens of leaky features like hoses, gaskets, seals and valves that can prevent losses.
“2 grams amounts to a rounding error.”
That’s just admitting you don’t know what a “rounding error” is. Rounding errors don’t compute to real world measurable losses over time.
“1% as was being discussed in the thread would be 572 grams”
1% was in context of battery drainage not fuel leakage.
“Of course a vehicles’ Evaporative Emissions System is not a perfect containment vessel...”
Which is all I ever asserted. Thanks for conceding that.
Give it up, you asserted evaporative emissions in ICE vehicles amounted to the same 1% a day loss as experienced in EV battery charge. I used your own statistics to debunk your claim and now you are trying to tell me 2 is not a rounding error in 56703.54. Really? Stop.
” you asserted evaporative emissions in ICE vehicles amounted to the same 1% a day loss as experienced in EV battery charge”
Quote me saying that then.
” I used your own statistics to debunk your claim and now you are trying to tell me 2 is not a rounding error in 56703.54. Really?”
Certainly. Rounding errors are mathematical artifacts. Mathematical artifacts do not add up to real world, measurable quantities that countries make legislation based on.
“measureable quantities that countries make decisions on” ? What country is that?
Countries make political decisions based on political estimates of political advantage
The private sector make decisions based on market estimates.
Some Christians make decisions on what the Bible says.
measurable quantities is a cherry picked number one uses if it fits the agenda.
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