Posted on 08/12/2022 4:33:46 PM PDT by ConservativeInPA
We are basically in a civil war. Pick a side.
Everyone has a “need to know” about fraudulent acts of the DoJ.
I think you are a big DeSantis supporter and want him to run in ‘24, do I have that correct?
“Pathological strict reading” ?
Yup!
The question being posed by PolitiGarbo is fallacious and we should all know this....
Oh grow up.
You get so triggered when other FReepers don’t see issues as you do.
Fine so you’re telling me if he does in a vacuum meaning no one present, no record, no stamp marking, nothing it’s ok!
Ok, let’s assume immediately after doing it the President dies, has a stroke goes into a coma never to return, somehow is gone.
Were the documents declassified?
Fine so you’re telling me if he does in a vacuum meaning no one present, no record, no stamp marking, nothing it’s ok!
You are telling me that there is a subordinate executive, or group of executives, who sit with authority to issue orders to their executive superior at whose pleasure they serve.
If nobody knows about the alleged declassification, it would not be an issue and we would not be discussing it. Neel Kaskari, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, has stated that he witnessed the act.
Ok, let’s assume immediately after doing it the President dies, has a stroke goes into a coma never to return, somehow is gone.Were the documents declassified?
Technically, the documents would have been declassified. Pursuant to your hypothetical, nobody knows about the declassification, so the world will continue to proceed upon what it does know.
If nobody but the guilty parties had ever found out that Spiro Agnew accepted bags of bribe money while in office, would it still have been an impeachable offense?
In the instant case, Trump is alive and has told the public that he declassified the documents, and has a competent witness to his alleged act. What does AG Garland have to indicate that the alleged act never happened?
The Framers decided against having an Executive who acted by committee. An example of an executive by committee would be the Vice President when he presides over the Joint Session of Congress. His duties are defined by the Congress, his defined constitutional position in the proceeding is President of the Senate, and he acts as the Presiding Officer. He gets to rule on motions subject to the objection of any member of Congress. Upon any objection, the majority vote of Congress decides. The President of the Senate gets to annonce their decision. The President of the Senate gets to open envelopes and hand them to the Tellers who are appointed by the Congress to read, record, and tally the votes and give the report of their effort to the Presiding Officer who thereupon gets to read what the Tellers determined.
The Framers knew that at times the Chief Executive must have the power to act decisively on urgent matters of state. The check upon abuse of those powers is impeachment and removal from office. It is not to hamstring the Chief Executive by creating some appointed committee from whom the Chief Executive must obtain approval before wielding his executive power. The power to classify and declassify is an Executive power, not a Legislative power.
The people's grant of executive power is short and simple. Article 2: "The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."
What evidence is there that a crime was committed?
Without records anyone is at a legal disadvantage! I don’t care who you are!
Without records anyone is at a legal disadvantage! I don’t care who you are!
I would certainly agree, however it is a pure assumption on your part that Trump is without records. In the last year and a half, he may have digitized the entire lot and have a copy in his pocket.
Curiously, the search warrant does not appear to specify any such copy, were it to exist.
Property to be seizedAll physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071, or 1519, including the following:
a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;
A digitized copy is not really a physical document or record.
b. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;
The digitized documents are not necessarily regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of anything.
c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021; or
The digitized copies would be created after January 20, 2021. They would not be Presidential records, nor would they be government records.
This is so laughably broad it would include all records generated by the Legislative or Judicial branches for those four years. The entire Legislative record and all federal court records created during that time would be considered as evidence of criminality.
d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.
The digitized copies would not show evidence of knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records or documents.
I reckon a subpoena could have been filed requesting or demanding that Trump produce all the records and any physical or digital copies that may have been made. It seems a tad sloppy that the most vaunted investigation agency on the planet did not do that.
Bringing in the Librarian from the National Archives makes me wonder who thinks it appropriate that that librarian would be the proper custodian of Top Secret SCI/COSMIC material. If he were the designated custodian, why did he not notice for a year and a half that he was missing all that material? Not to mention the 30+ million Obama Presidential Records being held by Obama with the stated intent to digitize them.
Moreover, the GSA or somesuch governmental agency packed the material at the White House and transported it to Mar-a-Lago and delivered it. Are we to believe that there was no record made of what was packed, or of what was delivered? Why not?
Believe it. The powers of the presidency as the nation's Chief Executive when it comes to security classifications is pretty much absolute and this power is different from anyone else involved with security clearances.
Obama, to his credit, issued an executive order in 2009 that established procedures for classifying and declassifying information while underscoring the fact that the president has total and complete authority.
Trump did not repeal this executive order and neither has Biden.
I am NOT saying Trump doesn’t have records!
I am saying he’s in difficult straits if he doesn’t.
I certainly hope he does, and it would be out-of-character if he doesn’t. It’s still possible, meaning probability is greater than zero that he doesn’t. We’re all human even Trump so it’s possible.
I am NOT saying Trump doesn’t have records!
I am saying he’s in difficult straits if he doesn’t.
Being without records makes it much more difficult, but anyone with records, the best lawyers money can buy, and right on his side, is in difficult straits when he is up against the full might of the government. They can and do lie, create evidence, suborn perjury, destroy or withhold evidence, and any other underhanded or illegal crap you can think of. For most, the best possible outcome one can hope for is not winning, but surviving.
Believe it. The powers of the presidency as the nation's Chief Executive when it comes to security classifications is pretty much absolute and this power is different from anyone else involved with security clearances.Obama, to his credit, issued an executive order in 2009 that established procedures for classifying and declassifying information while underscoring the fact that the president has total and complete authority.
Just to underscore the matter, I provide some additional comment.
I have seen some sites challenge the President's authority based on the Atomic Energy Act, claiming declassification is also a statutory authority. I have not seen a single one of them quote that statute.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-68/pdf/STATUTE-68-Pg919.pdf
68 Stat 909, 941 (30 Aug 1954) Atomic Energy Act
"SEC. 142. CLASSIFICATION AND DECLASSIFICATION OF RESTRICTED DATA.—"a. The Commission shall from time to time determine the data, within the definition of Restricted Data, which can be published without undue risk to the common defense and security and shall thereupon cause such data to be declassified and removed from the category of Restricted Data.
"b. The Commission shall maintain a continuous review of Restricted Data and of any Classification Guides issued for the guidance of those in the atomic energy program with respect to the areas of Restricted Data which have been declassified in order to determine which information may be declassified and removed from the category of Restricted Data without undue risk to the common defense and security.
"c. In the case of Restricted Data which the Commission and the Department of Defense jointly determine to relate primarily to the military utilization of atomic weapons, the determination that such data may be published without constituting an unreasonable risk to the common defense and security shall be made by the Commission and the Department of Defense jointly, and if the Commission and the Department of Defense do not agree, the determination shall be made by the President.
The Commission and the DoD may agree that something be released to the public and release it. If they do not agree that it may be released without constituting an unreasonable risk to the common defense and security, the determination is made by the President.
The Commission and the DoD exercise the delegated authority to decide to release material. Their decision to not release material may be overriden by the President who is the ultimate authority.
The opinion of the Commission and the DoD only matters when they decide to release something. If the oppose release and President decides to release anyway, his opinion is final.
If he decides to release something on his own, he has no obligation to obtain their approval.
EO 13526 - Classified National Security Information order of 29 December 2009
By his Executive Order, President Obama delegated his classification and declassification authority to subordinates within the Executive Branch and set rules they must follow to use such authority as his agent. These are restrictions on the agents, not the master issuing them. All classified material is subject to an automatic declassification review after some period of time, as directed by the President. If the reviewing authority, acting as the agent of the President, decides not to declassify, it must report each case to the President with a justification. The President may override. The ultimate authority is his. At any time of his choosing, he may revoke any existing Executive Order.
Section 5.3 establishes the Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel. At paragraph (c), Rules and Procedures; subparagraph (e) we find:
(e) The Panel is established for the sole purpose of advising and assisting the President in the discharge of his constitutional and discretionary authority to protect the national security of the United States. Panel decisions are committed to the discretion of the Panel, unless changed by the President.
Neel Kashkari, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, has stated that he witnessed the act.
I realize and apologize for providing a bit of misinformation. I garbled two names in my head and it was not Kashkari but Kash Patel who alleged he witnessed the declassification.
“Trump declassified whole sets of materials in anticipation of leaving government that he thought the American public should have the right to read themselves,” Patel told Breitbart News in a phone interview.“The White House counsel failed to generate the paperwork to change the classification markings, but that doesn’t mean the information wasn’t declassified,” Patel said. “I was there with President Trump when he said ‘We are declassifying this information.'”
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