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Proud Band of Ukrainian Troops Holds Russian Assault at Bay — for Now
New York Times ^
| March 6, 2022
| Michael Schwirtz
Posted on 03/07/2022 3:28:02 PM PST by Zhang Fei
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Article on an intrepid group of Ukies holding the line against Russian forces. If there's a general theme for their resistance in the face of overwhelming odds, it's "Because we live here", a line made famous by the late screenwriter John Milius in "Red Dawn".
1
posted on
03/07/2022 3:28:02 PM PST
by
Zhang Fei
To: Zhang Fei
2
posted on
03/07/2022 3:29:45 PM PST
by
rrrod
(6)
To: Zhang Fei
Serbs lived and still live in Kosovo. Got any accolades for those who still don’t accept being cut out of their country by pious Nato
To: Zhang Fei
Avoid Paywalls using Brave Browser. Technical, but works. I have been getting around paywalls by searching MSN along with title. No more, as some articles are not uploaded there. NEW METHOD. Your welcome. 🙂
Inspect , then disable is way better.
I use Brave, so on the article.
1) Right Click Inspect
2) ... 3 vertical dots, click run command,
3) type java, then see disable java script, click on debugger
4) Hit Refresh paywall gone...
5) You can now read the whole article.
4
posted on
03/07/2022 3:37:30 PM PST
by
Sonar5
To: Sonar5
[Avoid Paywalls using Brave Browser. Technical, but works. I have been getting around paywalls by searching MSN along with title. No more, as some articles are not uploaded there. NEW METHOD. Your welcome. 🙂
Inspect , then disable is way better.
I use Brave, so on the article.
1) Right Click Inspect
2) ... 3 vertical dots, click run command,
3) type java, then see disable java script, click on debugger
4) Hit Refresh paywall gone...
5) You can now read the whole article.]
Intriguing. Thanks.
5
posted on
03/07/2022 3:40:23 PM PST
by
Zhang Fei
(My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
To: Zhang Fei
These guys?
6
posted on
03/07/2022 3:42:33 PM PST
by
McGruff
(The first casualty when war comes is truth)
To: Sonar5
bookmark brave paywall trick
7
posted on
03/07/2022 3:47:10 PM PST
by
SteveH
(.)
To: rrrod
I love my propaganda in the morning...it smells like victory.
;-)
8
posted on
03/07/2022 3:48:59 PM PST
by
cgbg
(A kleptocracy--if they can keep it. Think of it as the Cantillon Effect in action.)
To: McGruff
[These guys?]
If so, kudos to them. Heck - we supported the Russians even though they got WWII going by allying with Hitler in the first place. Compared to the way the Russians gave the Nazis their head start, I think these Ukrainian LARP’ers, who haven’t actually killed 6m Jews, are amusing but fairly harmless. The fact that they are risking their lives to defend a Jewish president who presides over a capital city run by a halachically Jewish mayor, is evidence enough that they are using these symbols mainly to annoy the Russians.
9
posted on
03/07/2022 3:49:38 PM PST
by
Zhang Fei
(My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
To: Sonar5
10
posted on
03/07/2022 3:54:46 PM PST
by
kiryandil
(China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
To: Zhang Fei
The Chechens in Grozny held out for a long time before that city was leveled. The long term battle here is likely the same. The Ukies need to send a lot of Russian troops home in boxes or urns to undermine Tsar Putin’s support at home. It could happen.
11
posted on
03/07/2022 3:57:32 PM PST
by
Dr. Franklin
("A republic, if you can keep it." )
To: Zhang Fei
“for now” is right. Russia is not trying yet. Russia will win. Just a mater of time.
12
posted on
03/07/2022 4:02:15 PM PST
by
poinq
To: Dr. Franklin
[The Chechens in Grozny held out for a long time before that city was leveled. ]
IIRC, Chechnya had no economy without oil. Ukraine is a software center and back office to many Western companies. In other words, this is a well-educated population, with the resourcefulness of a capable and skilled people. In some ways, they are *too* civilized, which makes me wonder about their ability to hold out, in pure motivational terms. That may be why both Putin and Milley thought they would fold immediately. So you never know. Everyone, both pro and con, is groping in the dark.
13
posted on
03/07/2022 4:04:06 PM PST
by
Zhang Fei
(My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
To: Zhang Fei
From the New York Times? Take it with a grain (or maybe a ton) of salt...
14
posted on
03/07/2022 4:05:55 PM PST
by
Who is John Galt?
("Shoeless Joe" played for the White Sox; "Clueless Joe" lives in the White House...)
To: poinq
The Russians have already had to invest several times more men and material in Ukraine than in Chechnya. Its a much bigger problem. At this point its looking like they will need even more men and material to finish the job through attrition, which will be costly.
It becomes a question of how much cost the Russians will bear. And that always was the obvious Ukrainian strategy, to make this business expensive.
15
posted on
03/07/2022 4:08:59 PM PST
by
buwaya
(EPA)
To: Zhang Fei
IIRC, Chechnya had no economy without oil. Ukraine is a software center and back office to many Western companies. In other words, this is a well-educated population, with the resourcefulness of a capable and skilled people. In some ways, they are *too* civilized, which makes me wonder about their ability to hold out, in pure motivational terms. That may be why both Putin and Milley thought they would fold immediately. So you never know. Everyone, both pro and con, is groping in the dark.
Ukraine is also much,much bigger than Chechnya. If the Ukies keep fighting, the body count for Russia will be much higher. That could make a difference. Then, there is the historic relationship between Poland and Ukraine. The Poles and Russians have fought over Ukraine for centuries, and it continues today. The Chechens didn't have much foreign support, and I suspect that W. Bush agreed to stop supporting Chechen independence in exchange for Putin's cooperation in other areas. This looks much different now.
16
posted on
03/07/2022 4:12:40 PM PST
by
Dr. Franklin
("A republic, if you can keep it." )
To: Zhang Fei
Ukraine just killed Gen. Maj. Vitaly Gerassimov, chief of staff of the 41 Army. At Kharkiv. Gerasimov was a senior military official who participated in the second Chechen war and was awarded a medal for “capturing Crimea.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-fighting-general-killed-b2030661.html
17
posted on
03/07/2022 4:13:03 PM PST
by
tlozo
To: poinq
[“for now” is right. Russia is not trying yet. Russia will win. Just a mater of time.]
Russia is straining so hard, the boiler is popping rivets. The US lost 174 men in Iraqi Freedom after 6 weeks. Russia’s own number is 500 in 1 week. That’s 18x the US KIA rate. If Putin had any hair, it would be coming out in clumps. He might yet win, but things are not going well for Russia.
Russia withdrew from Afghanistan after 13,000 KIA at a time its population was 2x what it is today, fighting a bunch of Stone Age savages its troops had no problem massacring. Ukrainians are next door neighbors who look like them and talk like them. Russian morale must be abysmal. It’s like asking American troops to invade and burn Canadian cities to the ground. Hordes would desert and turn their weapons against the invaders. At current official Russian attrition rates, Russia hits 13,000 friendly dead in 6 months. Putin had better win by then.
18
posted on
03/07/2022 4:13:38 PM PST
by
Zhang Fei
(My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
To: poinq
All wars of attrition are contests of pain. How much pain can either side inflict, vs how much pain either side can bear. This is a highly variable balance and the outcomes are not obvious.
What is certain is that in order to win this the Russians are going to have to mobilize their reserves, which is much more pain for them, in order to come up with the manpower to make contiguous lines in order to hold territory. They cannot have planned for this eventuality as they would have called up a lot of reserves beforehand had they anticipated it, in order to avoid a stalemate.
As far as equipment goes it seems that the Russians have shot their bolt. They really don’t have much really new equipment in working order, and they have already fed a very large part of it into this operation, somewhere between 500-1000 tanks, for one thing. They don’t have that many T-90’s and T-80’s or even the latest T-72’s. Their reserves will be using pure un-upgraded Soviet-era stuff, those which can be made to work. We have already seen classic BMP-1’s there, probably in the hands of security forces or reservists. That will possibly suffice, but it means that many more casualties.
19
posted on
03/07/2022 4:22:32 PM PST
by
buwaya
(EPA)
To: tlozo
[Ukraine just killed Gen. Maj. Vitaly Gerassimov, chief of staff of the 41 Army. At Kharkiv.
Gerasimov was a senior military official who participated in the second Chechen war and was awarded a medal for “capturing Crimea.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-fighting-general-killed-b2030661.html]
I’m extremely pessimistic about Ukraine’s odds, but this is an indicator that Russian morale can’t be all that great, if general officers are having to show up within sniper range to rally the troops. It’s as if Steve Jobs decided show up on iPhone assembly lines to get them moving.
20
posted on
03/07/2022 4:25:35 PM PST
by
Zhang Fei
(My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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