Posted on 03/07/2022 9:00:50 AM PST by Widget Jr
Meanwhile, a parliamentarian from the party of former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko openly fantasized about Zelensky being blown to bits by a militant’s grenade. Though Zelensky achieved a minor disengagement, the neo-Nazi paramilitaries escalated their “No Capitulation” campaign.
Now reading that, and knowing that Zelensky actually ran on a platform of trying to reduce the fighting in the border areas, it seems very odd indeed that a Russian campaign motivated by alleged "deNazification" would insist on getting rid of the guy who the neo-Nazis hated so much they wanted to see blown up. And yet...that's something upon which the Russians are apparently insisting.
It's just really strange that you'd be so insistent on getting rid of the Jewish President who opposed the neo-Nazis when you're trying to "deNazify" the country. Unless the entire military campaign has nothing to do with Nazism at all, but rather is just an effort by Russia to destroy Ukraine's national identity, and the symbol of its independence.
The 1945 battle for Berlin:
“When the Soviet offensive resumed on 16 April[1945], two Soviet fronts (army groups) attacked Berlin from the east and south, while a third overran German forces positioned north of Berlin. Before the main battle in Berlin commenced, the Red Army encircled the city after successful battles of the Seelow Heights and Halbe. On 20 April 1945, Hitler’s birthday, the 1st Belorussian Front led by Marshal Georgy Zhukov, advancing from the east and north, started shelling Berlin’s city centre, while Marshal Ivan Konev’s 1st Ukrainian Front broke through Army Group Centre and advanced towards the southern suburbs of Berlin. On 23 April General Helmuth Weidling assumed command of the forces within Berlin. The garrison consisted of several depleted and disorganised Army and Waffen-SS divisions, along with poorly trained Volkssturm and Hitler Youth members. Over the course of the next week, the Red Army gradually took the entire city.
“On 30 April, Hitler died by suicide (with several of his officials also dying by suicide shortly afterwards). The city’s garrison surrendered on 2 May but fighting continued to the north-west, west, and south-west of the city until the end of the war in Europe on 8 May (9 May in the Soviet Union) as some German units fought westward so that they could surrender to the Western Allies rather than to the Soviets.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin
Stalin expected maximum force to be applied to achieve Russian victory, and it still took over two weeks.
I saw Russian troops getting berated by far more numerous Ukrainians in the heart of a Ukrainian city on TV.
Taking over Ukrainian cities is not likely to be a key Russian goal.
The Russians are seeking bargaining leverage, not Ukrainian curses.
I don’t think that’s what I said. 😏
Probably over 95% of Ukrainian troops are still in service.
Russia doesn’t want to carpet bomb Ukrainian divisions if avoidable.
“a Russian campaign motivated by alleged “deNazification” would insist on getting rid of the guy who the neo-Nazis hated so much they wanted to see blown up”
Zelensky is pro-NATO and pro-EU. That’s good for a ‘nyet’ from Putin.
I would agree that it was not initially a Russian goal to seize militarily all Ukrainian cities. I think their hope/expectation was that the government would flee, and the whole place would capitulate in a few days. I do think they probably wanted to take at least some critical cities though - especially Odessa. But I suspect they probably figured that would fall into their lap with relative ease as well.
The problem they have now is that the government didn't run, and the cities didn't fall. And it doesn't look like they're going to absent a major fight. That's been apparent for a week at least now. So at this point, I think they understand that they have to take those cities by force, or retreat and look weak.
Well, you said this: The only thing left is mopping up what’s left of the Gesarian mafia in the major cities.
So it's fair to expect the Russians to have this whole thing wrapped up by the end of the week. Right?
“Neutrality” is not possible.
It was possible for Finland and I believe Austria.
Neutrality is likely to be a must in Putin’s book.
Russia may want to get the right to remove from office Ukrainian officials it objects to.
Russia may wish that Ukraine have anti-Nazi laws like Germany does.
Russia will want Ukraine to have no military interaction with NATO members and possibly IMO not be an EU voting member.
Putin has insisted on demilitarization of Ukraine.
I’m not sure what can be done about Russia’s list of “wanted” Ukrainians.
As long as they are killing Russian invaders who are bombing the shit out of my cities and neighborhoods, I couldn't care less......
“I think they understand that they have to take those cities by force, or retreat and look weak.”
The Russians want to put pressure on the cities to put pressure on Zelensky.
The Russians don’t want to dodge Molotov cocktails thrown by irate Ukrainian civilians in center cities, however.
The Russians will want to shrink their perimeters around the cities to avoid tying up troops and equipment and to prevent the cities from farming in the outskirts to hold out indefinitely.
US intelligence knows what’s going on. The Russians aren’t going to pull the wool over the eyes of the NSA, DIA and CIA.
RE: Neo Nazi” probably means to Putin a Ukrainian who has done violence to an ethnic Russian in Ukraine.
Then by that definition, we can call Putin the big Neo Nazi for the violence he has done to Ukrainians.
RE: Putin has insisted on demilitarization of Ukraine.
Put yourself in the position of the average Ukrainian and ask yourself this question — in 1991, the USA and Russia asked us to take down all of our nuclear arsenal (roughly 1/3 of the nukes in the old Soviet Union ) in exchange for security guarantees.
We obliged accordingly believing in their collective promise.
Now 30 years later, what has that trust done for us?
One of our guarantors invades us while the other sits idly by doing next to nothing.
Now you want us to totally do away with our only means of defending ourselves?
Would you accept these terms?
I agree -- the Russians certainly would hope that isolating those cities would force Zelensky to capitulate.
The Russians will want to shrink their perimeters around the cities to avoid tying up troops and equipment and to prevent the cities from farming in the outskirts to hold out indefinitely.
Agreed again...but do you think the Russians have enough troops to surround all those cities effectively given that the Ukrainian military is still effective? Keeping all those troops supplied in a siege, resisting breakouts, then the tedious days as it wears on in the face of international pressure, and maybe even international airdrops, may be really tough.
It's possible Zelensky simply won't surrender. In that case, I'm not sure how long the Russians are willing to wait.
I'm sure Russia's reason for invading Crimea was because of their neo-Nazis too.......
I have been pointing out the Russian side of things because our western media has been pretty much stoking a blood lust in my view. It has rubbed off on many Freepers. Realistic expectations of how a negotiation will go can never happen without appreciating how the opposition thinks. So that is what I am doing here. Putin bad has reached the same level as Orange man bad.
So the paramilitaries are 2% of Ukraine - how effective can a well funded, ideologically driven and violent counterculture be in driving "poll" numbers, when all of the interviewees believe that their answers will come well known to the apparatchiks?
Living in denial of the reality on the ground will only prolong the fighting and risk escalation to caned sunshine. So I am calling for caution, which seems in very short supply.
Other Freepers have commented that is about oil. Perhaps. What people are not taking about is how a long running dispute will impact inflation and food supplies. Yes, China is ringing on that one today, so this too may have a propaganda element.
Freegards
How about your criticize me for something I have written, rather than something you have made up? I have never advocated for the ouster of Zelinsky, only predicted what would be acceptable to the Russians based upon realpolitik.
My point is that there is a kernel of truth the Russian propaganda, which cannot be negated by Zelinski's Jewishness. His Jewishness is a glittering generality, which cals attention away from the fact that the 2014 Madian coup granted immense power to ultranationalists, and Zelinski had to get into bed with them out of pragmatism. After all, following the time of the quote that you referenced, the Azov Battalion merged into the National Guard.
Reality does not cease to exist, simply because you your close your eyes to it. You should fully understand that strengths and weaknesses of your enemy, before you begin to predict how they will behave. If not, your are open to deciding based upon blood lust, which never ends well. I am simply trying to call attention to that fact.
The Ukrainians have been expecting this, so the big question is whether they can stand the assault and whether they haven't done this on purpose to divert the Russian assault into kill boxes.
There seems to be a lot of lame excuses for the poor Russian showing coming out of current and former US intel and military sources. It's almost like they are disappointed that Putin's military is actually a shadow of its projected self.
That isn’t neutrality, it’s a protectorate, like the one France ran in Morocco.
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